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Old 16-11-2021, 00:29   #1
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Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Just got a quote from Pantaenius for our FP Bahia which will move to its new home in the NT next year. Current owners have a policy with Pantaenius so we thought it would be easy to get cover from them.

Pantaenius have informed us,

"Please be aware that our underwriters are NOT prepared to provide cover for your boat in the Australia North cruising area (north of 26.5 degrees South) which includes your home waters at Nhulunbuy. The attached quote provides cover for Australia South only (south of 26.5 degrees South)."

We would be interested in hearing info from anyone who has recently successfully insured a boat kept in the tropics in Australia!
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Old 16-11-2021, 01:30   #2
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Insurance in Oz IMO is becoming harder and harder for all vessels in Australia, particularly in the cyclone rated areas. I would contact a broker to find you the best deal possible. I am not sure but I understand Club Marine many cover you.


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Old 16-11-2021, 16:01   #3
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Just to be clear on this issue, its only boats on swing moorings in the tropics that the Pantaenius underwriters wont cover, so boats in transit, cruising and moored in marinas can still get full cover with Pantaenius in the Northern cruising area.
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Old 16-11-2021, 16:59   #4
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Are you sure about cover still provided?
I have recently gone through a requote exercise with Pantaenius, when changing boats.
Their new policy offering indicated no cyclone (named tropical storm) cover north of 26.5 degrees. They told me that I could request it as an extra (it had been included as standard for current boat) and it *may* be provided, but I have to provide a full cyclone plan with marina, details etc. As a full-time cruiser, with no fixed home, providing such a plan is almost impossible.
In the end I chose not to pursue the issue, since we manage our risk anyway by shifting southwards.
Interestingly, hiding up a mangrove creek was an allowed option. It appears that the only option now is marina. Having seen many marinas up and down the coast, it is likely that the risk of damage possibly more likely when concentrating so many boats together tied to old and flimsy pontoons...

The trend is for insurers to take on less and less risk!
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Old 16-11-2021, 20:47   #5
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Update from Pantaenius - they wont even offer just 3rd party for boats in Northern Australia! So there are going to be an increasing number of uninsured boats above the 26th parallel I suspect!
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Old 16-11-2021, 21:02   #6
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galumay View Post
Just got a quote from Pantaenius for our FP Bahia which will move to its new home in the NT next year. Current owners have a policy with Pantaenius so we thought it would be easy to get cover from them.

Pantaenius have informed us,

"Please be aware that our underwriters are NOT prepared to provide cover for your boat in the Australia North cruising area (north of 26.5 degrees South) which includes your home waters at Nhulunbuy. The attached quote provides cover for Australia South only (south of 26.5 degrees South)."

We would be interested in hearing info from anyone who has recently successfully insured a boat kept in the tropics in Australia!
We were with them for many years, but I sense they are losing the plot - or their underwriters.

All was fine until our renewal was due (never a claim of any sort) upon which some young clerk advised our boat was worth less than half the agreed value they were currently insuring it for (since new, and despite many upgrades), and suggested we insure for the half figure "as it's unlikely you will be claiming for a total loss"!!!

I advised that is exactly why we had boat insurance - fire, theft or sinking!
He then came back with some market examples of older, earlier models, mostly ex-charter market (and therefore with no owners cabin, and no L-galley - just stacked full of cabins), to justify his desk valuation of our boat.

I pointed out the different and older model, the lack of air-conditioning, desalination unit, washing machine, Dock & Go system, Radar and other nav' instruments, full teak decks etc, etc, etc. Response was "that model would be considered 'like' or 'similar' by our underwriters".

Scary stuff - the thought of having to get into a legal fight to have your boat replaced. So much for 'agreed value', and 'like for like'.

Got a valuation certificate from a broker and took our business elsewhere.
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Old 16-11-2021, 21:33   #7
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Try Edward William Marine. Yes. They are still operating. You can chat with them. Office is in Spain, so about 8 hours behind.
Also check out QLD/GBR conditions if heading that way. If your vessel exceeds 15 m then you are expected to take out specific covers for pollution clean up and wreck removal that probably are not included in most standard policies. See msq for what is currently expected.

Extra premiums for lightening or named storm damage is a bit of a gravy train for insurance companies. It makes you wonder why you even consider insurance. They make a motza because marinas insist on insurance when it would be vastly cheaper if they included cover in all rental or lease costs. (This was available in the early days of the Duck Pond in Darwin. No longer.)

If staying around Nhulunbuy I would consider looking at what the locals do. There should be a few river sites useable during any cyclones. Inverell Bay in front of the yacht club is certainly exposed but there are a number of river estuaries to the east and south.

Many years ago, an acquaintance staying at Nhulunbuy was aware of a portending cyclone following the normal path from near the Cape at TI. So they took off and headed north as the cyclones usually peel off to the SW after a while, hoping the cyclone would pass underneath him. It worked, but that’s a risky approach methinks.
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Old 16-11-2021, 22:14   #8
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

we took cover with pantaenius when previous insurers topsail decided to no longer cover permanently cruising live-aboards

checked the market thoroughly - including overseas - and found pantaenius were the best (of a poor lot). we have cover for australia north & australia south but amongst the myriad of exclusions and limitations is ;

Exmouth - Cape York Warranty: Any claim made whilst cruising in waters of Australia between
Exmouth WA, and Cape York QLD, shall require the owner to pay double the deductible noted in
the policy. This clause supersedes clause "5. Deductibles" in the PDS. (wNOAUSW)

and

1. Unless otherwise stated in your Schedule, this Insurance does not cover any loss or damage caused by a Named Tropical Storm.
2. This exclusion applies between November 1st through to May 1st annually in the area between the Latitudes 10S and 26.5S
on the Australian east coast, and from November 1st through to May 1st annually in the area between the Latitudes 10S and
30S on the Australian west coast.

incidentally we got quote fm edward williams. they were abt 25% higher premium and much higher excess...

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Old 16-11-2021, 22:49   #9
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

We got insurance with New Wave Marine in the NT, on swinging mooring.
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Old 16-11-2021, 23:11   #10
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

lucky you . this is the response we got from new wave

"Thank you for your quotation request. Unfortunately, we are unable to offer terms at this time because:

Our underwriting guidelines do not cover those that live on board permanently If this is incorrect, please remove this from your quote and re-submit it."


cheers,
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Old 16-11-2021, 23:13   #11
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

I am lo oking to move my boat to Spain and my Dutch insurer won't cover my boat in the Med. I heard about Edward Williams and got a very quick low quote from them. Hmm.

Research on the internet gives some information that doesn't reflect well on the company.

Does anyone have any actual experience with Edward William insurance?

They didn't require a survey and their rates seem a bit unrealistically low...
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Old 17-11-2021, 00:29   #12
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by George DuBose View Post
Research on the internet gives some information that doesn't reflect well on the company.

Does anyone have any actual experience with Edward William insurance?

They didn't require a survey and their rates seem a bit unrealistically low...

I became suspicious too when I got a quote for sailing to the Med. After some research I realised that the price is not that low as you get an impression of first. The only thing you pay for is the paper you can show for marinas.

You have to got to court if you want to have a chance when you do a claim.



My problem was that no other company wanted to sell an insurance. The boat was too old (32 years). I sent a list to Pantaenius with all my safety equipment, then they agreed to give me insurance.
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Old 17-11-2021, 01:46   #13
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by billgewater View Post
Try Edward William Marine. Yes. They are still operating. You can chat with them. Office is in Spain, so about 8 hours behind.
Also check out QLD/GBR conditions if heading that way. If your vessel exceeds 15 m then you are expected to take out specific covers for pollution clean up and wreck removal that probably are not included in most standard policies. See msq for what is currently expected.

Extra premiums for lightening or named storm damage is a bit of a gravy train for insurance companies. It makes you wonder why you even consider insurance. They make a motza because marinas insist on insurance when it would be vastly cheaper if they included cover in all rental or lease costs. (This was available in the early days of the Duck Pond in Darwin. No longer.)

If staying around Nhulunbuy I would consider looking at what the locals do. There should be a few river sites useable during any cyclones. Inverell Bay in front of the yacht club is certainly exposed but there are a number of river estuaries to the east and south.

Many years ago, an acquaintance staying at Nhulunbuy was aware of a portending cyclone following the normal path from near the Cape at TI. So they took off and headed north as the cyclones usually peel off to the SW after a while, hoping the cyclone would pass underneath him. It worked, but thats a risky approach methinks.
Not sure about other states but the vast majority of marinas in QLD no longer accept Edward William.
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Old 17-11-2021, 02:52   #14
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Hi There... I was with Edward Williams last year...After renewing our insurance with them for another year I recived a notice telling us that the underwriter had gone broke. So now I had no cover and no refund or redress.

Moved insurance to Pantanious

thanks
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Old 17-11-2021, 03:43   #15
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Re: Insurance for tropical waters Australia

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
lucky you . this is the response we got from new wave

"Thank you for your quotation request. Unfortunately, we are unable to offer terms at this time because:

Our underwriting guidelines do not cover those that live on board permanently If this is incorrect, please remove this from your quote and re-submit it."


cheers,
Well, what is the definition of 'living aboard'? If you just cruise around for 1-2-15 years, without owning a house, that's not necessarily living aboard...
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