How Not to Plan an Ocean Passage

[TeddyDiver]

They might be senile, they might be incompetent and dangerous but can't believe all the incidents were emergencies in any way. They are ex pilots and in aviation you radio of your status whatever reason which makes your flight plan to chance or even make it plausible to change. So they might just go with too much reporting of their status and most take it as emergencies of some kind.. Just dissable their radio and of they go

BR Teddy

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

I really liked Boatie's post in the beginning of this thread. It was full of knowledge about what can go wrong in an old timber boat--he referred to her as a Princess without lace, iirc. He hit on the fact that going to the north part of the North Sea at this time of year is difficult sailing. And I felt I ought to cut those guys some slack.

Now, we all know, supposed information from the media is likely to be exaggerated. And so, not having listened to the interview, I find myself wondering about the accuracy of what's been reported. I ask myself, "is it true that they grounded (requiring help) 3 times? Is it true that they called for help 5 times? I ask, "Did they REALLY leave a candle burning when they left the boat?"

I confess, this morning, I used the "wtf" expression for the first time ever on CF (again, iirc). Of all the behaviors which have been reported of these two chaps, leaving ANY boat with an open fire is absolutely astounding to me. TO ALL YOU NEWBIES OUT THERE, DO NOT EVER FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER leave your boat with a candle, a heater, an oven/stove burning. Just say NO, if the notion erupts. Unless you have a subconscious wish to destroy it, that is)/

As an elder to the subjects of this thread, selfishly, I feel concerned about the example they're giving, too, and how it might affect me. [As some here may have noticed, I have a fertile imagination which sometimes arises and smites me!]

I surely do not want legislation against elders sailing.

A64Pilot mentioned that as a retired military man, he is responsible financially for efforts to save him if he were intoxicated, or in disobedience of other civil law. Anybody got any idea why that standard not be applied to all of us?

I am also wondering if the subjects of this thread just got in way over their heads, and don't know how to quit with honour....

Ann

At first i suspected it was the media telling their usual twists to a story. But, now im not too sure. Ive read one comment on one of thise reports how even though they called off the 'help' the coast guard decided to board anyway. Which suggests to me that they call for help and then change their minds. Frankly, nine 'incidents' is too many in any ones book.

Re the candle, i understood one of them saying they blew it out, but when the boat tipped over, the fuel it fell on was enough to get the small ember in the wick going again.

Im apposed to ANY pay as you need rescue services for any reason. Its a slippery slope. In some states of australia you pay for ambulance services and thats priven to be a dismal failure. When people are in doubt, they don't call due to considering the cost.

[JPA Cate]

^^^^

RC, would you "blow out" a candle, or would you moisten your fingers and pinch it out? And then, would you put it in the sink? or leave it near fuel?

No, imo, it was a bad choice, one that could have been fatal, had they stayed aboard.

a.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

^^^^

RC, would you "blow out" a candle, or would you moisten your fingers and pinch it out? And then, would you put it in the sink? or leave it near fuel?

No, imo, it was a bad choice, one that could have been fatal, had they stayed aboard.

a.

I dont have candels on my boat at all. In this day and age there is simply no need for candles let alone open flames in essentially a flamable environment.

I use LED torches and all of my redundacies are also LED.

(At home i use the touch the tongue and pinch method to show my masculinity).

[CarstenWL]

... think we read about this on CF a few days/weeks ago (can't find the post) about their rescue No. 7 or so - well No. 9 and counting ....

American 'Captain Calamity' sailors rescued for a NINTH time | Daily Mail Online

Insane I would say!

Carsten

[Lizzy Belle]

Congrats on opening the 3rd topic on these guys ...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ge-159798.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...en-160169.html

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Re the candle, i understood one of them saying they blew it out, but when the boat tipped over, the fuel it fell on was enough to get the small ember in the wick going again.

Who are they trying to kid?

[undercutter]

Mr Shapiro told BBC Radio Cornwall: "We're re-tying up in Hayle, some things have to be fixed, but the boat is fine.
"There was a candle which burnt some clothes, otherwise there was no real damage.
"Soon as we get northerly winds we'll go out."

So apparently their voyage is not over yet!!!

In Canada the gubernment would prevent them from leaving the dock until the boat was considered seaworthy to their standards! Not that I agree with this philosophy however in this instance it may be the prudent course of action.

This of course is a slippery slope.

[CarstenWL]

... as I said, could not find the old posts ... Thanks for the heads-up ...

Carsten

[nigel1]

I've merged the 3 threads into 1.

[AiniA]

First off, as I approach 68 being 71 does not seem as terribly old as it did when I was 40. There are LOTS of very competent cruisers all over the world much older than this so I don't think age matters particularly. I just think these guys don't really know what they are doing and are menace to themselves and to others. They are still intending to leave when they get a north wind. It is the end of January, no time for anyone to be out in the North Atlantic let alone these two fools. If they want to kill themselves that is entirely their choice. What is not their choice is to put others at risk. Take away all of their communication devices and let them have at it.

[Island Time O25]

Up to 9 times already. I sense a Guinness record in the making. Or may be they've been hitting too many Guinnesses themselves.

[ausnp84]

What a joke! The RNLI is a charity that costs quite a bit to keep running... why don't these two make a sizeable donation before heading off again, *just in case* they need a 10th rescue?

Seriously though, these two are a danger to themselves and the rescue services who have to keep going out. We're stuck in Portugal at the moment with boat work to do and poor weather. Sure, we could crack on and get into trouble but what good is that? Better to stay put, get everything sorted, wait for a weather window, then head off....

n

[boatman61]

Huh..!!!
So much for the spirit of John Paul Jones....

[a64pilot]

Ann,
Without hijacking the thread, this link explains a Line of Duty Investigation
Military Line of Duty (LOD) Investigations

Why is this type of logic not applied even loosely to the civilian world?
My personal belief is in the US anyway there is a belief that because I exist and consume Oxygen, I am entitled to many things, I see it often confused as "Rights". That is just a personal opinion, the idea of personal responsibility is "Old Fashioned"
Where do you draw the line too, for example assume someone is diagnosed with AIDS, should they be marked somehow or even legally required to tell a partner?
How about a criminal, committing a criminal act that causes them to be injured, should Society pay that individual a monthly stipend for the rest of their life (Disability)?

If you do something really stupid and the rescuer gets hurt or killed, are you liable?
I think there is precedence here, if your being chased by a Cop, your liable for him.
US law, I have no idea about the rest of the World.

Should a Government agency be allowed to declare your Passage "Manifestly unsafe" and remove you from your vessel, causing it's abandonment?


Tough questions, too tough I believe to be answered, especially by a Politician.