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GrowleyMonster · 16-05-2014, 11:19

Then again if you were innocently sailing past Cuba when you suddenly and mysteriously started taking water from a conveniently opened through-hull, (take pics of the water) or ran out of TP and snickers bars, or some similar emergency, you got to save the vessel at all costs, which could even mean limping wet-bilged or snicker-less into an enemy port. LOL

denverd0n · 16-05-2014, 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dennis

It's technically true that you are allowed to visit Cuba all you want as long as you don't spend any money.

It's not just spending money. Some people think you're legal so long as you only barter with Cubans. Not so. In fact, any "transaction" with them is illegal.

What's more, if you spend more than four hours in Cuba that is considered prima facie evidence that you have engaged in transactions. What does that mean? It means that if you end up in court you no longer have the presumption of innocence. The prosecution does not have to prove that you spent money, it is just accepted as a fact. You can try to prove that you didn't, but how are you going to do that? How could you possibly prove that, the entire time you were there, you never dropped a nickel in a beggars cup, or gave a street vendor a dollar for a tamale?

But this is just what's legal and what's not. Lots of Americans go and only a few get caught. If you're feeling lucky, and want to take the risk, that's your choice.

David Dennis · 16-05-2014, 12:31

Thanks for the clarification, DenverDon. I didn't know about the four hour rule - that's quite interesting, since I would think that even if you spent one minute docked at Marina Hemingway you would have to pay them for it. Or if you had to clear into the country, you must pay their fees. Correct?

On a practical level, if you wanted to go from Key West to South America without an overnight passage, it looked to me like you could anchor overnight somewhere in Cuba, without spending money. Would that be feasible?

David

tomfl · 16-05-2014, 13:45

There are lots of sources on the internet that provide information on boaters going to Cuba. As others have said the law prohibits spending money in Cuba, not visiting. The law presumes you are spending money there if you stay longer than a set time. Fact of the matter is if you do go there, and some boats have claimed safe harbor to land in Cuba, officials require you pay a few CUs to get in and about three dollars a day for medical insurance. So you do have to spend money there even if you claim safe harbor.

Do people get away with it, yes. Do people get caught doing it, yes. You pay your money and you take your chances.

**weavis** · 16-05-2014, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl

There are lots of sources on the internet that provide information on boaters going to Cuba. As others have said the law prohibits spending money in Cuba, not visiting. The law presumes you are spending money there if you stay longer than a set time. Fact of the matter is if you do go there, and some boats have claimed safe harbor to land in Cuba, officials require you pay a few CUs to get in and about three dollars a day for medical insurance. So you do have to spend money there even if you claim safe harbor.

Do people get away with it, yes. Do people get caught doing it, yes. You pay your money and you take your chances.

so..... how did you like Cuba Tom?

tomfl · 16-05-2014, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

so..... how did you like Cuba Tom?

The only time I was in Cuba was in 1956 when my Dad took me and the rest of the family there from Miami. It was legal back then and lots of folks in South Florida went there for the fishing.

But I do have a very good friend from Canada who I consider the best source of information about cruising in and around Cuba.

Addision has cruised there extensively there on his boat Threepenny Opera and I met him in Boot Key when he was there.

The Voyages of Threepenny Opera

**weavis** · 16-05-2014, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl

The only time I was in Cuba was in 1956 when my Dad took me and the rest of the family there from Miami. It was legal back then and lots of folks in South Florida went there for the fishing.

But I do have a very good friend from Canada who I consider the best source of information about cruising in and around Cuba.

Addision has cruised there extensively there on his boat Threepenny Opera and I met him in Boot Key when he was there.

The Voyages of Threepenny Opera

I have been several times... no longer than 3 days when sailing, and then headed to other Islands and stayed for a week or more.....
I stayed there for two weeks on a UK trip.
Nice place.
Still dont know how Anthony Bordain got permission to film there for his show.

tomfl · 16-05-2014, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

SNIP

Still dont know how Anthony Bordain got permission to film there for his show.

Supposedly Obama has been granting more cultural/educational permits to visit Cuba recently. I am sure since Bordain is well known for his left wing politics it would not be a problem to get a cultural permit. Seems like Beyonce and JZ went there on some type of cultural permit.

I am in the process of justifying an educational permit being issued so I can mimic three of the potential routes Columbus took on his first voyage to the New World once he landed. Plan to start at Egg Island (the supposed landing if the Northern Route is the real one), then go South and East to other possible land falls at Samana and possibly others ending on the North coast of Cuba.

While there is no real agreement on the first several islands Columbus landed at everyone seems to agree the fifth island he landed at was Cuba.

Govt red tape is a drag.

**weavis** · 16-05-2014, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl

Supposedly Obama has been granting more cultural/educational permits to visit Cuba recently. I am sure since Bordain is well known for his left wing politics it would not be a problem to get a cultural permit. Seems like Beyonce and JZ went there on some type of cultural permit.

I am in the process of justifying an educational permit being issued so I can mimic three of the potential routes Columbus took on his first voyage to the New World once he landed. Plan to start at Egg Island (the supposed landing if the Northern Route is the real one), then go South and East to other possible land falls at Samana and possibly others ending on the North coast of Cuba.

While there is no real agreement on the first several islands Columbus landed at everyone seems to agree the fifth island he landed at was Cuba.

Govt red tape is a drag.

Take a flotilla of Cats with you to 'observe".

tomfl · 16-05-2014, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis

Take a flotilla of Cats with you to 'observe".

All of that will have to wait till I get over the drunk and naked regatta at Green Turtle

RegattaTimeInAbaco.com | Home

Lake-Effect · 16-05-2014, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dennis

Regardless of legality, everyone should visit Cuba at least once. Why? Because you can see the follies of a Communist system. It is both funny and pathetic to see how badly it works and is run, and see how good people are hamstrung by it. You will never see Karl Marx in the same way again, as long as you talk to Cuban people instead of going on the regime's PR tours.

I'm no friend to communism, but pretending that Cuba's economic woes are entirely due to "communism", as opposed to maybe being due to having the world's largest economic and military power sit on your face for some 60 years, is a bit... blinkered.

Nicholson58 · 16-05-2014, 16:12

I heard that most US cruisers deal in Euros instead of dollars.

tomfl · 16-05-2014, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

I heard that most deal in Euros instead of dollars.

You need to read Addison's blog. They deal in something called CUs, which are officially suppose to be what Cubans get for selling something to non Cubans. Canadian dollars and Euros can be exchanged for them. US dollars can also be exchanged but at a 10% penalty.

denverd0n · 16-05-2014, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dennis

I would think that even if you spent one minute docked at Marina Hemingway you would have to pay them for it.

Probably. The 4-hour thing doesn't mean that you get a free pass to stay less than 4 hours. It just means that if you stay longer, they automatically assume that you MUST have engaged in transactions and now the burden of proof is on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dennis

it looked to me like you could anchor overnight somewhere in Cuba, without spending money. Would that be feasible?

Maybe, but I see two problems. 1) The Cubans are probably going to want you to check in--just as most countries would--if you anchor in their waters. 2) You would still be spending more than 4 hours in Cuban territory, meaning that the State Department would assume that you spent money. What proof would you have that you didn't? Nothing but your word that you stayed on your boat, and that no one came out. You can't really call that "proof."