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Kd9truck · 31-03-2021, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Bad idea... millions of seabirds will be killed... And what happens if they get a 1938 hurricane? These mills burn out and the cost of repair and replacing parts negates all the energy savings...

There is no data showing millions of sea birds have died from the off shore wind farms already. The turbines stop if they go over their threshold of energy. They also orient in the direction of least resistance.

If you are against wind or solar I would recommend you argue the Valad point that they would need to cover every surface with solar and every air space with windmills. And below the solar they need battery’s the size of freight cars, and for all of this they will need to mine for metal.

But no way should we go nuclear unless we want to be like France something like 90% of their energy comes from nuclear. See how that’s working out for them.

Montanan · 31-03-2021, 13:26

Comparative Levelized Cost of Electrical Energy

Source Attribution: International Energy Agency IEA Projected Costs of Generating Electricity 2020
Fuel report — December 2020 All rights reserved.

https://www.iea.org/reports/projecte...ectricity-2020

Copied here under their use by attribution terms:

Note that off shore wind power cost has declined considerably from about US$200 megawatt hour to about $150 per megawatt hour in the last five years and is expected to decline considerably yet again in the near term. The technology is gaining its legs and as it scales in volume the cost of manufacturing drop dramatically. Coal and combined cycle natural gas plants are mature technologies there is not much room for reducing their costs and with a carbon emissions costs escalating they wil become ever more expensive and simply mandated to shutter.

The first graph is data aggregated from 24 countries.

Cadence · 31-03-2021, 13:38

If it is private investment have at it. i feel sure the technology is far beyond most of us, transmitting power to shore. Most sea birds are actually shore birds. I wonder how many people anti, actually venture that far off shore? The bases probably would provide good fish habitat.
Advocating nuclear is great as long as you don't care about future generations and how the hell do you dispose of the waste.
It is probably better than oil wells in their place off shore I can't see an electrical leak killing the areas marine habitat.
JMHO
.

Shrew · 31-03-2021, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Bad idea... millions of seabirds will be killed... And what happens if they get a 1938 hurricane? These mills burn out and the cost of repair and replacing parts negates all the energy savings...

If you believe that seabirds will be killed, then you have never seen one active.

The blades (3) move so slowly, there is no way for a bird to get hit by the blades, even in high wind.

silkie · 31-03-2021, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Bad idea... millions of seabirds will be killed... And what happens if they get a 1938 hurricane? These mills burn out and the cost of repair and replacing parts negates all the energy savings...

Everything breaks sometime. Imagine the cost of a nuclear plant damaged by a natural event. The Japanese are still adding it up.

CaptNemoO2 · 31-03-2021, 13:58

This is my home waters, I have been sailing this area of the south shore of the island for 35 years... Everytime they mention putting structures here, I think of Ambrose Light. It was hit by a ship, torn down and replaced. Then it was hit by a ship again and repaired. Then it was hit again by a ship for the third time and the Coast Guard said screw it, now you only get a bouy! It's like that old internet wives tale about the aircraft carrier and the lighthouse... "You deviate course!" "No, you deviate course, I'm a lighthouse!" Ambrose was a great race mark for most of my childhood. I fully expect (or rather won't be surprised if/when) one of these new super container ships ends up mowing down a field of wind generators, especially since they are putting them in the anchorage where they wait for entry into NY Harbor, and in the separation zone of the TSS (the wind generators NYS is looking to put in on their own are closer in then the ones the feds are proposing here). On the plus side, maybe it will get more Coast Guard presence out of Jones Beach and they will have the USACE dredge the inlet the right way this time!

Cadence · 31-03-2021, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

This is my home waters, I have been sailing this area of the south shore of the island for 35 years... Everytime they mention putting structures here, I think of Ambrose Light. It was hit by a ship, torn down and replaced. Then it was hit by a ship again and repaired. Then it was hit again by a ship for the third time and the Coast Guard said screw it, now you only get a bouy! It's like that old internet wives tale about the aircraft carrier and the lighthouse... "You deviate course!" "No, you deviate course, I'm a lighthouse!" Ambrose was a great race mark for most of my childhood. I fully expect (or rather won't be surprised if/when) one of these new super container ships ends up mowing down a field of wind generators, especially since they are putting them in the anchorage where they wait for entry into NY Harbor, and in the separation zone of the TSS (the wind generators NYS is looking to put in on their own are closer in then the ones the feds are proposing here). On the plus side, maybe it will get more Coast Guard presence out of Jones Beach and they will have the USACE dredge the inlet the right way this time!

I recall Ambrose when it was a light ship and was housing for rookie harbor pilots for months at a time. Contributed to a few divorces.

I doubt where they are showing the windmills is navigable for the NY harbor shipping trade.

Montanan · 31-03-2021, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrew

If you believe that seabirds will be killed, then you have never seen one active.

The blades (3) move so slowly, there is no way for a bird to get hit by the blades, even in high wind.

Actually the tips of the blades are moving at great speed. Recall that the circumference is 3.14 times the square of the diameter. The speed of the wind turbine depends on how fast the wind is blowing. Most wind turbines are turning at about 10 to 20 rpm. When wind speeds are around 12-15 mph the tip of the blades are turning at about 120 mph. At higher wind speeds the tips of the blades can get up to around 180 mph!

It has been shown that Bats are killed primarily by the sudden pressure differential induced near the blades which destroys their lungs and fewer are killed by being struck by the blade. When a bird hit them it is whacked a far distance.

There are far fewer birds to strike far off shore then there are near shore and on land. Wind turbines often are operated such that they are turned off during peak bird migration times if they are located in a flyway for the very purpose of mitigating large numbers of bird kills. A large flock trying to traverse a large wind farm would be hard challenged. The arrival of flocks is rather easy to accurately assess. They are often tracked by radar.

But contrary to one notable politician's opinion, wind mills do not cause cancer.

**Jim Cate** · 31-03-2021, 14:57

Quote:

Recall that the circumference is 3.14 times the square of the diameter.

Umm... you might want to consult your 4th grade maths teacher and re-post that one!

Jim

**Dockhead** · 31-03-2021, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chotu

Not a fan. I’d prefer solar on every single roof or nuclear.

I don't really care. The main thing is to get off hydrocarbons. Solar is great; wind is great -- let's by all means have more of that. But nuclear is the killer app, which can solve all these problems at a stroke. The main thing is let's stop burning coal -- like yesterday. Whatever we have to do to stop that, is worth it.

Montanan · 31-03-2021, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Umm... you might want to consult your 4th grade maths teacher and re-post that one!

Jim

Good catch, my brain fart.

I believe it was third grade.

Okay Pie D.

Anyway the tips are moving quite fast.

**Pete7** · 31-03-2021, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

But no way should we go nuclear unless we want to be like France something like 90% of their energy comes from nuclear. See how that’s working out for them.

They have been flogging electricity to the UK for years.