New York Bight - Wind Energy Areas at Sea

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by the bookie

it ****s up the fisherman though.

The Europeans seam to have gotten the hang of it.
This is nothing new, now.
Best wishes

[senorbigchief]

I really don't understand why this alternative energy discussion has limited itself to wind, solar, or nuclear as viable sources when hydrogen is THE most common element on earth, in our solar system, and in the universe at about 75% of the element composition. (Helium is #2)


There are some pretty convincing videos that show self sufficient grids (small) which use solar power to run daily operations and keep batteries (reserve) charged, while simultaneously making liquid hydrogen by way of electrolysis, storing it in large tanks.


Once again, the beef with H is the cost per unit.....however, I believe that similar to what occurred with electric vehicles (until Elon nobody really tried) hydrogen may be what the doctor ordered.


Just my two cents.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by senorbigchief

I really don't understand why this alternative energy discussion has limited itself to wind, solar, or nuclear as viable sources when hydrogen is THE most common element on earth, in our solar system, and in the universe at about 75% of the element composition. (Helium is #2)


There are some pretty convincing videos that show self sufficient grids (small) which use solar power to run daily operations and keep batteries (reserve) charged, while simultaneously making liquid hydrogen by way of electrolysis, storing it in large tanks.


Once again, the beef with H is the cost per unit.....however, I believe that similar to what occurred with electric vehicles (until Elon nobody really tried) hydrogen may be what the doctor ordered.


Just my two cents.

And a good two cents contribution it is.

The production of "blue" or "green" hydrogen is anticipated by the use of renewable power when the demand for power is less than the production of renewable energy as hydrogen is a useful combustible product as well as a fuel for fuel cells, particularly for mobile propulsion applications. As an energy storage technology it has to compete favorably with the alternatives such electrochemical batteries, pumped hydro, etc. The round trip efficiency of power conversion takes a big hit with hydrogen being involved.

There will be a lot of wind and solar power being consumed for hydrogen production, every day there are more and more projects being announced.

By way of example, yesterday's news story:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/orste...060000880.html

Orsted plans wind farm, hydrogen plant at North Sea Port

COPENHAGEN, March 31 (Reuters) - Denmark's Orsted plans to develop an offshore wind farm and adjacent hydrogen plant at the North Sea Port straddling the Dutch-Belgian border, the company said on Wednesday.

The wind farm would have capacity to produce 2 gigawatts of electricity and would power the 1-gigawatt hydrogen plant. The hydrogen facility would be able to produce about 116,000 tonnes a year by 2030 for use as energy.

The investment in such is a lot more than 2 pennies.

[CaptNemoO2]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I recall Ambrose when it was a light ship and was housing for rookie harbor pilots for months at a time. Contributed to a few divorces.

I doubt where they are showing the windmills is navigable for the NY harbor shipping trade.

All the plans I've seen put the wind generators north off the shipping lane, but south of the three mile line, which is the anchorage, and also the typical spot tug and barges go along the shore. They are also looking to put them in between the inbound and outbound channels, in the separation zone of the TSS. And also just south of the outbound channel. Where they have shown they want to put them is right in the navigable waters of the Ambrose-Nantucket channel.

A quick Google search found this, which summarizes the same concerns from a non-profit shipping consortium.

https://www.worldshipping.org/public..._July_2018.pdf

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, senorbigchief.

[Montanan]

This massive investment in infrastructure will have huge implications not the least of which involves US maritime industry support. The Customs and Border Patrol are issuing clarifying guidance as to USA versus foreign flagged ships and crew participations as it will take a tremendously larger fleet to get this accomplished and to operate.

Latest Customs and Border Protection Ruling Has Big Implications for the Jones Act’s Role in Offshore Wind

https://gcaptain.com/latest-customs-...eid=5626ef2c30

Snipets:

This is all extremely significant considering the Biden Administration has just revealed a plan to expand the nation’s offshore wind capacity to 30 gigawatts by 2030, marking a major expansion from the nation’s current capacity.

“Anything close to the level of activity needed to achieve such goals will require virtually every permutation of available U.S. coastwise qualified vessels and permissible foreign-flag vessels,” according to Holland and Knight. “CBP’s active participation in the industry is a necessary and welcome trend.”

". . .some clarity on the foreign-flag vessel part:

“The Jones Act of course does not prohibit all vessel related activities on the Outer Continental Shelf [OCS], as the rulings also reflect,” explained Gerald Morrissey, lead author of the article. “The point was… there are permissible activities that non-Jones Act vessels can undertake on the OCS, and given the tremendous scope of the anticipated offshore wind industry and ambitious timeframes on top of that, it is highly likely that the projects will need vessels from all permissible sources.”


The details within the rulings are of keen note and interest.

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by the bookie

it ****s up the fisherman though.

How would an off shore wind farm muck up the fishers? I would think that sportfishers might see a benefit with the "artificial reef" aspect. Would it be the folks that lay out lines for miles? Or is that done many miles out? And considering that 80% of fish eaten by Americans is imported, how many fishers remain?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Umm... you might want to consult your 4th grade maths teacher and re-post that one!

Jim

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by CaptNemoO2

This is my home waters, I have been sailing this area of the south shore of the island for 35 years... Everytime they mention putting structures here, I think of Ambrose Light. It was hit by a ship, torn down and replaced. Then it was hit by a ship again and repaired. Then it was hit again by a ship for the third time and the Coast Guard said screw it, now you only get a bouy! It's like that old internet wives tale about the aircraft carrier and the lighthouse... "You deviate course!" "No, you deviate course, I'm a lighthouse!" Ambrose was a great race mark for most of my childhood. I fully expect (or rather won't be surprised if/when) one of these new super container ships ends up mowing down a field of wind generators, especially since they are putting them in the anchorage where they wait for entry into NY Harbor, and in the separation zone of the TSS (the wind generators NYS is looking to put in on their own are closer in then the ones the feds are proposing here). On the plus side, maybe it will get more Coast Guard presence out of Jones Beach and they will have the USACE dredge the inlet the right way this time!

If a ship has an allision with a turbine or support structure the ship will likely be primarily at fault and will be liable for damages. That is what marine insurance is for. No big deal if one turbine is taken off line or needs to be replaced every once in a while. The structures and farms are well lighted for ships and for airplanes and will be easily discernable by radar, and I suspect will also be transmitting by AIS, as anchored and not underway or making way. One would have to be a truly drunken sailor to run into such massive structures, albeit mechanical failures could result in going off course. Little boats can do no harm to these strong foundations. They will be very similar to oil and gas platforms which ships and boats rarely have issues with. I suspect many fisherpersons will be placing their lines near the artificial reefs as the marine life will become quite enhanced after the damage to the bottom recovers and attractive biologics grow on the foundations.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Montanan

If a ship has an allision with a turbine or support structure the ship will likely be primarily at fault and will be liable for damages. That is what marine insurance is for. No big deal if one turbine is taken off line or needs to be replaced every once in a while. The structures and farms are well lighted for ships and for airplanes and will be easily discernable by radar, and I suspect will also be transmitting by AIS, as anchored and not underway or making way. One would have to be a truly drunken sailor to run into such massive structures, albeit mechanical failures could result in going off course. Little boats can do no harm to these strong foundations. They will be very similar to oil and gas platforms which ships and boats rarely have issues with. I suspect many fisherpersons will be placing their lines near the artificial reefs as the marine life will become quite enhanced after the damage to the bottom recovers and attractive biologics grow on the foundations.

Nicely put!

[GordMay]

"Three Injured after CTV Hits Wind Turbine at German Offshore Wind Farm” [April 24, 2020]
Three persons were injured, one seriously, after a crew transfer vessel (CTV) allided with a wind turbine at the Borkum Riffgrund 1 offshore wind farm in the German North Sea.
➥ https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/04...ore-wind-farm/

[Cadence]

To be the Devil's advocate. Using hydrogen will produce water and raise the sea level.
As sound and argument as many.
The infrastructure is already there for electrical distribution once ashore. Hydrogen may be the way of the future but isn't even in it's infancy.
Someone may have the answer, how was hydrogen produced to fill the Hindenburg?

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Cadence

To be the Devil's advocate. Using hydrogen will produce water and raise the sea level.
As sound and argument as many.
The infrastructure is already there for electrical distribution once ashore. Hydrogen may be the way of the future but isn't even in it's infancy.
Someone may have the answer, how was hydrogen produced to fill the Hindenburg?

You take WATER and electroyze it = H2 + O
You burn H2 it takes up O = Balanced.

[Midnight Son]

The old way was reformatting Natural Gas, to split off free H2.

[Montanan]

FYI:

According to the White House, investments in the new port upgrades to support offshore wind development are expected to exceed $500 million, and also require the construction of four to six specialized turbine installation vessels at U.S. shipyards, each representing an investment between $250 and $500 million. The plan will also require new U.S. factories, including one to two for each major windfarm component, i.e wind turbine nacelles, blades, towers, foundations, and subsea cables.

To coincide with today’s announcement, the U.S. Department of Transportation’s (DOT) Maritime Administration has also announced holding a Notice of Funding Opportunity for port authorities and other applicants to apply for $230 million in grants for port and intermodal infrastructure-related projects through the Port Infrastructure Development Program. The grants will support projects that strengthen and modernize port infrastructure, and can support shore-side wind energy projects, such as storage areas, laydown areas, and docking of wind energy vessels to load and move items to offshore wind farms.

https://gcaptain.com/biden-administr...-30gw-by-2030/