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Old 06-04-2017, 05:04   #16
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pirate Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

Maybe.. but it can happen as witnessed by me in Portimao a few years back.. a young Irish couple had gone for a sailing honeymoon on their Cat and decided to keep going, hopping down the French, Spanish and W Portuguese coast uneventfully till they got to Portimao where for some reason the Harbour Master got pissy.. maybe he felt he'd been insulted, his wife gave him a bad time that morning, whatever..!!!
The result was the boat could not leave port till the owner could get a 'qualified' skipper to command the boat..
I was on a delivery assist with the owner and we were able to assist the young guy with my owner taking command and then a few miles down the coast me coming alongside the Cat and taking my boats owner off.
We advised them to keep on sailing till they reached Spain 50nm further down the coast in case the HM had contacted Faro, Taveira and San Antonio..
It only takes one mans 'Bad Day in the Office' to seriously screw up your life.
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:04   #17
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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a car is hardly "extraterritorial".
against usurped "rights" there is of course no easy recourse. Austrian flagged vessels are considered Austrian territory by austrian law.
Neither is your boat. See Dockhead's excellent explanation.

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(but latter month's news from the USofA shows a certain "way with the laws" even at the highest station...)
& btw: "respecting the countries and people you are visiting" - presuming you a US citizen: like those 485.000 US citizens visiting Vietnam in 1967, right?
Actually I'm Dutch and although my country doesn't have the cleanest of history that does not prevent me from trying to respect and accept the rules in a foreign country. If I really don't like those rules I don't visit or leave.
One of the reasons I might stop visiting the USA in the near future is that they can now force me to provide access to my phone/tablet and all relevant passwords. If this goes into effect, I will respect their rules, but not accept them, hence I will not visit the country..
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:16   #18
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

Greece changed their DEKPA rules. This means that everybody sailing in Greece waters will need to get a new one this year. Officially you need an ICC to get it. It's funny because Greece is not a signatory on the resolution. I know they don't need to be, but still it's strange.
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:31   #19
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by De.windhoos View Post
Neither is your boat. See Dockhead's excellent explanation.



Actually I'm Dutch and although my country doesn't have the cleanest of history that does not prevent me from trying to respect and accept the rules in a foreign country. If I really don't like those rules I don't visit or leave.
One of the reasons I might stop visiting the USA in the near future is that they can now force me to provide access to my phone/tablet and all relevant passwords. If this goes into effect, I will respect their rules, but not accept them, hence I will not visit the country..

Yeah, we come up with some dumb crap, but not alone and not just for others. They tried this bs on me coming back from mexico a few years back. I said no and it severly slowed my rentry down. I learned after a while about the beauty of fedex and ups for making air travel much more efficient, just havent figured out how to do it on a boat.
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:41   #20
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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. . .Austrian flagged vessels are considered Austrian territory by austrian law.. . .
Again, this is simply false. Only warships and government-owned ships ever had any kind of even limited extraterritoriality in the waters of foreign states.

Austria is a signatory of UNCLOS, which specifically recognizes the jurisdiction of the coastal state over Austrian vessels, including to some extent even warships (does Austria have warships?).

UNCLOS says that this jurisdiction must not be exercised so as to prevent foreign vessels from exercising the right of innocent passage. But the right of innocent passage is subject to many qualifications and exclusions.

As a matter of comity, coastal states generally do not assert jurisdiction over matters which take place on foreign ships, and which do not affect the interests of the coastal state. During innocent passage, a number of matters are specifically exempt from the jurisdiction of coastal states by UNCLOS.

But nothing says that a coastal state cannot demand that yachts operated in its territorial waters, at least not on innocent passage (where there is some argument), must be in command of a person holding some kind of qualification. As a matter of comity, many states just accept whatever is required by the vessel flag state. But some -- like Croatia, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and a number of others, do not. Good luck telling the judges in those states, that this law of theirs is a "usurpation".
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:47   #21
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Yeah, we come up with some dumb crap, but not alone and not just for others. They tried this bs on me coming back from mexico a few years back. I said no and it severly slowed my rentry down. I learned after a while about the beauty of fedex and ups for making air travel much more efficient, just havent figured out how to do it on a boat.
Yeah Fedexing your boat might be a bit expensive
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Old 06-04-2017, 05:53   #22
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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a car is hardly "extraterritorial".
Hate to destroy your illusion - but neither is a boat.
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:17   #23
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Tkeeth View Post
Yeah, we come up with some dumb crap, but not alone and not just for others. They tried this bs on me coming back from mexico a few years back. I said no and it severly slowed my rentry down. I learned after a while about the beauty of fedex and ups for making air travel much more efficient, just havent figured out how to do it on a boat.


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Old 06-04-2017, 07:35   #24
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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The very first thing you'll be asked when you check into Montengro "can I please see your ICC boating license?" Then you'll be asked for your boat documents including insurance. If you don't have these, your boat won't be going anywhere soon.
Yes. Local know-how prevails. I earmark Montenegro on my no-go list now.

I must admit: I not only do not own an ICC license but also I do not know what it is. Let alone the fact that I have only a very vague awareness of where Montenegro is (Balkans, East, OK, but then there is that vast white area marked: THERE BE DRAGONS BALKANS).

Strange places with strange customs that have to be either respected or else omitted.

Thanks for the heads-up.

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Old 06-04-2017, 08:14   #25
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Yes. Local know-how prevails. I earmark Montenegro on my no-go list now.

I must admit: I not only do not own an ICC license but also I do not know what it is. Let alone the fact that I have only a very vague awareness of where Montenegro is (Balkans, East, OK, but then there is that vast white area marked: THERE BE DRAGONS BALKANS).

Strange places with strange customs that have to be either respected or else omitted.

Thanks for the heads-up.

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Old 06-04-2017, 08:14   #26
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Yes. Local know-how prevails. I earmark Montenegro on my no-go list now.

I must admit: I not only do not own an ICC license but also I do not know what it is. Let alone the fact that I have only a very vague awareness of where Montenegro is (Balkans, East, OK, but then there is that vast white area marked: THERE BE DRAGONS BALKANS).

Strange places with strange customs that have to be either respected or else omitted.

Thanks for the heads-up.

b.
ICC is the same as US bareboat skipper certificate or U.K. Day skipper certificate
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:47   #27
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

I think the ASA now offers a certificate of competency if you have completed the right courses and all. This is supposed to be acceptable for captain of a pleasure craft that you own. All this is based upon the recipical agreements, but it may be reciprocal with Englands licensing which, after brexit, may or may not be honored. If you have the requisite, i would get the ASA certificate, laminate it, frame it, and at least you have it to show. It says its good for the Mediterranean right on it. Maybe even more accepted than a six pack, but again, who knows after Brexit. Best of luck, and fair winds, 73's Mark
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:04   #28
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

brexit will have no impact on UN resolution 40. That resolution was signed by individual states, NOT by the EU.


Regarding ASA IPC, you earn it when you earn ASA 104, but you still have to apply for it separately. It is also NOT a guarantee. It is not an ICC. It is an equivalence which may or may not be honored. I think it's a good idea to have it for just in case, but I wouldn't rely on it.


I do have my own question however...If I do have my master 100 ton USCG license including the sailing and towing endorsements, do I need to have the ICC to sail in the med or is the master license with sailing good enough for those areas that generally require an ICC?


Of course it's best to ask the source (each country), but I thought I would ask and see if anyone has experience on this matter.
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Old 06-04-2017, 09:29   #29
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Scot McPherson View Post
brexit will have no impact on UN resolution 40. That resolution was signed by individual states, NOT by the EU.


Regarding ASA IPC, you earn it when you earn ASA 104, but you still have to apply for it separately. It is also NOT a guarantee. It is not an ICC. It is an equivalence which may or may not be honored. I think it's a good idea to have it for just in case, but I wouldn't rely on it.


I do have my own question however...If I do have my master 100 ton USCG license including the sailing and towing endorsements, do I need to have the ICC to sail in the med or is the master license with sailing good enough for those areas that generally require an ICC?


Of course it's best to ask the source (each country), but I thought I would ask and see if anyone has experience on this matter.
A 100 ton with a sailing endorsement should get you around just fine
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:05   #30
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

Weird. There appear to be two nearly identical ASA web pages. Except one is selling an "IPC" and the other sells an "ICC."

I was going to buy one last year, just for contingency, since they only mention utility in the case of vacation charter. But I never overcame the activation energy required to take a respectable-looking passport photo.

A couple of years ago, I had to contact the ASA office, because I realized that I had never received credentials for some of the classes that I took, several years previously. I got the impression that there were only one or two people in the office, and they weren't particularly organized. Come to think of it, that never did get completely resolved...
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