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Old 07-04-2017, 00:52   #46
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Nordboen View Post
Thanks to the Dock Head.

This is also what I thought, is by purchasing a sørre powerboat, at 23 m, and because of a specific tax of 1.5 of the sum insured every year, so I register in the UK.
Don't step over that 23m limit even with dinghies in davits etc. The Navy Fleet Tender I used to crew on was registered at 78ft regardless of what the tape measure said because local port regulations also kick in at 80ft (24m). Portsmouth Harbour required a minimum of Yachtmaster to command a private vessel of 80ft or more and we didn't always have one available in the diving club, hence 78ft for the registration.

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Old 07-04-2017, 01:24   #47
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

I can only tell you what we have experienced -- we never had to show a capt license until Montenegro and I said I did not have one and was told I have XX hours (I forget how many but I think 12) to leave the territorial water of Montenegro - I then said I have my ASA certs and showed them the book with the picture and stamps to prove I had something and they let me stay - but grudgingly.
We understand that Croatia also requires it but not sure as we went from Montenegro to Croatia and the folks there knew we had cleared in and out and knew Montenegro requirements so it was a quick check in.
We have also been asked for our captains license in Georgia (I think), Russia, and Romania (I think) --

You can skip Montenegro and Croatia but what a loss - incredibly beautiful and you can spend a lot of time exploring Croatia.

Someone also said something about insurance and mentioned 5m -- We carry 500k usd and never had an issue until Montenegro and they wanted 1m euro and IMIS very quickly got us a rider for that amount.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:34   #48
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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Wrong.

I suggest you stay clear of the Med; your luck will eventually run out.
Jeez..!!! I detest having to say this..

He's Right Folks.. better safe than sorry..
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:54   #49
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Don't step over that 23m limit even with dinghies in davits etc. The Navy Fleet Tender I used to crew on was registered at 78ft regardless of what the tape measure said because local port regulations also kick in at 80ft (24m). Portsmouth Harbour required a minimum of Yachtmaster to command a private vessel of 80ft or more and we didn't always have one available in the diving club, hence 78ft for the registration.

Pete
Does the dinghy in davits count? I thought it was based on load line length, no?
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:55   #50
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by double u View Post
don't forget: your boat is extraterritorial (=it is "territory" of the country it is registered in) & the laws of the country of registry apply. They can only insist on a particular licence if boat is registered in their country. & it's highly doubtful if they know what the certificate of competence of the "daydreamer's bay offshore sailinf academy" looks like. but everybody as they like.
This is heard a lot in the US but is far from correct unless in international waters or in a warship. Comity applied by a host country does not turn a pleasure boat into an embassy.
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:08   #51
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pirate Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Does the dinghy in davits count? I thought it was based on load line length, no?
LOA... its what made removable/retracting bowsprits popular
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:37   #52
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Does the dinghy in davits count? I thought it was based on load line length, no?
Perhaps not and nothing may come of it, unless you accidently get in the way of the new aircraft carriers then QHM might have something to say. A joint inspection by the MCA, Customs and RN Police would be a tiresome affair if they wanted to set an example.

Best not put ones head above the parapet and do regularly practice tugging ones forelock. For those not familiar with this quaint English saying: linky
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:47   #53
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Perhaps not and nothing may come of it, unless you accidently get in the way of the new aircraft carriers then QHM might have something to say. A joint inspection by the MCA, Customs and RN Police would be a tiresome affair if they wanted to set an example.

Best not put ones head above the parapet and do regularly practice tugging ones forelock. For those not familiar with this quaint English saying: linky
LOL.

I'm awfully glad the Royal Navy is getting some muscle again.

OTOH, what's the presence of Carrier Battle Groups going to do to sailing in the Solent?? The Solent is not that big!! I remember single-handing to Portsmouth last year when a Yank carrier was at anchor at Spithead, and getting chased away by angry heavily armed men in a huge black RIB even though I was set to pass more than a mile away. Had to go a long way around. Maybe the Brits will be more friendly. QHM have always been good to me, and unfailingly courteous, even when I accidentally violated their rules.

Brits: "Old chap, it would be ever so good of you, if you could kindly alter course to starboard. It would such an unfortunate kerfuffle if we were obliged to use the chain gun and mess up the lovely gel coat on that Moody, aye wot? Security procedure you know, old boy. Sorry for the bother; cheerie-oh!"

Yanks: "Skipper, get that vessel to starboard, NOW!! DO IT!!! This is the U.S. Navy! We're blowing that blow boat tub out of the water in three zero seconds, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? ACKNOWLEDGE!"


Together with America's Cup practice by the new multi-billion British effort, the Solent is suddenly going to be like Grand Central Station, I'm afraid.
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:19   #54
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Wrong.

I suggest you stay clear of the Med; your luck will eventually run out.
OK.

I understand you mean what we have witnessed where we have sailed is not universal and that the Med is 'different'. But now that you said it PLS let us know which Med countries request the extra licenses.

Which countries, other than that unlucky Macedonia, require a US or German sailor carrying their respective boating licenses, to carry any additional licenses?

Maybe it is less time and effort to list the odd countries than to attribute anything to luck.

I am truly sorry to hear the Med is so (------) up. It was not my impression listening to people who sailed there. Maybe one has to venture further East to be exposed to (what I see as) odd practices?

Below is my 'luck list' of countries that DID NOT require us to show ANY boating (operator) licenses in years 2002-2014:

- Sweden,
- Norway,
- the UK,
- Ireland,
- Portugal,
- Spain,
- Cabo Verde,
- Martinique,
- St.Vincent and the Grenadines,
- ABC,
- Panama,
- French Polynesia,
- Cook Islands,
- Tonga,
- NZ,
- New Caledonia,
- Australia,
- Mauritius and Rodrigues,
- Reunion,
- RSA,
- Antigua & Barbuda,
- Azores.

NONE of the above ever asked us to show any boating licenses. Some of the countries we visited a couple of times by now.

PLS make a list of the Med countries that require the extra (local?) licenses. If you know what license they require, the better.

Just saying: "You are wrong" does not push the cart forward!

+++Big sunny kiss from our sunny island,
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:24   #55
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
OK.

I understand you mean what we have witnessed where we have sailed is not universal and that the Med is 'different'. But now that you said it PLS let us know which Med countries request the extra licenses.

Which countries, other than that unlucky Macedonia, require a US or German sailor carrying their respective boating licenses, to carry any additional licenses?

Maybe it is less time and effort to list the odd countries than to attribute anything to luck.

I am truly sorry to hear the Med is so (------) up. It was not my impression listening to people who sailed there. Maybe one has to venture further East to be exposed to (what I see as) odd practices?

Below is my 'luck list' of countries that DID NOT require us to show ANY boating (operator) licenses in years 2002-2014:

- Sweden,
- Norway,
- the UK,
- Ireland,
- Portugal,
- Spain,
- Cabo Verde,
- Martinique,
- St.Vincent and the Grenadines,
- ABC,
- Panama,
- French Polynesia,
- Cook Islands,
- Tonga,
- NZ,
- New Caledonia,
- Australia,
- Mauritius and Rodrigues,
- Reunion,
- RSA,
- Antigua & Barbuda,
- Azores.

NONE of the above ever asked us to show any boating licenses. Some of the countries we visited a couple of times by now.

PLS make a list of the Med countries that require the extra (local?) licenses. If you know what license they require, the better.

Just saying: "You are wrong" does not push the cart forward!

+++Big sunny kiss from our sunny island,
barnakiel
You were lucky! Yes, UK, France, and Northern Baltic countries are cool, also Russia and Estonia. Never ask for any qualification. Many other European countries are not cool. Southern European petty bureaucrats and LEOs can cause you vast headaches, if you don't give them exactly what they expect to get from you.

Spain, Portugal, Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Poland for starters, may demand a qualification even if your flag state does not.

Italy will let it slide but only if you give a certified letter that your flag state doesn't require any qualification.

Germany can sometimes cause problems -- the German water cops can be selectively aggressive about this, and also, especially, about TSS violations.


And that's just off the top of my head. I agree with Kenomac, although I think he could have said it more diplomatically
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:18   #56
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
OK.

PLS make a list of the Med countries that require the extra (local?) licenses. If you know what license they require, the better.

barnakiel

No one ask you for local licence, they ask for YOUR (country) licence. I have UK yacht master offshore and in Croatia/Montenegro they do not ask me for Croatian/Montenegro licence, UK licence is more then enough.

I do not understand this, that is their right to have licensing if in your country you do not need one then stick to your country or go to other who do not require any licensing or certification.

For example, I do not like US system, not country or people but (immigration)system, and what I have to do, or have to go through to get visa, papers to have with me and their system dealing with people in ports or airports so I would never go to US even if they paid me to go there.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:19   #57
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

(...)

Spain, Portugal, Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Poland for starters, may demand a qualification even if your flag state does not.

Italy will let it slide but only if you give a certified letter that your flag state doesn't require any qualification.

Germany can sometimes cause problems -- the German water cops can be selectively aggressive about this, and also, especially, about TSS violations.

(...)
I have sailed Spain from La Coruña to Marbella, Portugal from the Azores to Sao Vincente - four times starting back in 2002 and last time on our return trip in 2014. I have never ever been asked to show my boating license ONCE. This is just my singular data point but an average of 0 makes for a deep statistical consideration. Esp. in a sample that itself has close to one hundred data points.

Germany and TSS violations - I think any skipper that violates the TSS should be asked to show their license. In some cases, the violator should be fined and their boat confiscated.

Med is indeed a strange place. Makes me wonder why so many sailors bother at all with visiting countries which apparently offer bureaucracy and extremely high berthing and anchoring charges while one can alternatively sail where there is less red tape and at least comparable quality of food, services and landscape. Let alone what many people say that sailing in the Med is so bad.

I am very happy to be reading this thread. Otherwise I might have been tempted to sail North one day and end up in the Med!

I am sorry I have jumped to conclusions and made some readers think that showing our boating licenses is not generally required. Clearly, sailing the world is one thing and sailing the Med is another story.

b.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:34   #58
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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I do not understand this, that is their right to have licensing if in your country you do not need one then stick to your country or go to other who do not require any licensing or certification.
I posted on this above but apparently I was found wrong!

Read the passage about something called ICC and Montenegro (which I mixed up with Macedonia but it is Montenegro in fact).

Also a moment above where a poster says that if no license is required in your home country, you may still be asked to produce a license when visiting Spain, Portugal, Italy, Montenegro or Greece. So what license would it be?

So it does seem like the Med is more restrictive and more complicated than the countries on the Atlantic or world circuits.

A side note is that when you sail out and then some more, you stop seeing Greek, Italian or Montenegro flagged boats pretty soon. Possibly the countries with the most stringent regulations actually hit their own sailors worst.

Dumbfounded.
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Old 07-04-2017, 10:09   #59
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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Originally Posted by bvisailing32 View Post
Excellent scoops on this forum for the OP.

Also comes down to FOLLOW PROCEDURES of any country that you plan on visiting. Research and adhere to any requirements of those nations.

Be respectful and prepared. Have what ever documentation or certifications that are necessary. Hace it all organized for presentation.

Also understand that these are Nations / States to themselves, and we are visitors, and they have pride in their countries and their responsibilities.

You come sailing in and tell customs or harbor police to shove it, and for them to pass the word on up the line to the higher up government reps that will not tollerate BS from their bureaucrats.....

Let us know how you like being incarcerated in the local bastile, and maybe the port captain will be kind enough , when you are released after a year or two, to take you sailing on his boat that used to be yours. That might be a stretch, but disrespect of anyone is a bad path in life.....and bullying public officials is flat dumb.

Just follow the countries that you wish to visit procedures and requirements, be professional, and polite, respectful and prepared.

Guess what ?

No Problems with port authority or customs, or immigration , etc.

stay ahead of the power curve and have a grand cruising adventure.
You must be an armchair sailor. The reality is that you will never know all the rules. The rules are so complex that even those who are charged with enforcing them do not know them--ask two customs/immigration officers the same question and you will very likely get two different answers. What was fine for the first guy will get you in trouble with the second. This doesn't just happen in the third world, its what gets foreign yachties into trouble in the USA.

I have checked into over 60 different countries, some multiple times. I have knowingly broken the rules dozens of times, and unknowingly broken them dozens more. I have had a problem in less than half a dozen places. Some times I solved the problem with a mea culpa attitude, a couple of times I have pushed back. I have never bribed anyone (except through an agent), and I have never gone to jail or had my boat confiscated.
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:58   #60
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Re: Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

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OMG they serve shrimp ONE AT A TIME??? I would starve to death there!
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