Canadian COVID-19 News

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Well then, how come all the angst over insufficient health care facilities?

It is not that I disagree, I am trying to point to the cognitive dissonance.

We ARE a rich society and can afford much. But we squander much on baubles, shiny things. Then get pissed when necessities become short.

Oh, I agree. We definitely could put more resources into our healthcare systems. As I've pointed out, we've declined compared to our peer countries with regard to how much we spend on healthcare. And when you analyze healthcare expenditures in this country, we really have flat-lined or severely limited the public component of our systems. It is the private component that has continued to increase beyond inflation.

We could choose to spend more on the public component of healthcare. We could build greater redundancy and more capacity in our systems. But that would either mean higher taxes, or a shift in priorities to take something from somewhere else. None of these choices are easy.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Under normal circumstances this would not fly as it violates the Canada Health act

"Primary objective of Canadian health care policy

3 It is hereby declared that the primary objective of Canadian health care policy is to protect, promote and restore the physical and mental well-being of residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services without financial or other barriers."

BUT as its Quebec 2 things will happen

1. the federal government will pretent to be outraged but do nothing about it
2. if the Feds actually do something Quebec will figure out a way to use the "not withstanding clause" as they seem to like that option.

I think you're probably correct, on all counts.

G&M: Canadian Civil Liberties Association calls Quebec’s COVID-19 tax constitutionally vulnerable

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association says the tax plan is deeply troubling, noting the Charter of Rights and Freedoms recognizes individual autonomy over our bodies and medical decisions.

In an emailed statement Tuesday night, Cara Zwibel, acting general counsel for the association, says the tax penalty is a divisive measure that will end up punishing and alienating those who may be most in need of public health supports and services.

She says Quebec Premier Francois Legault’s government should abandon what she calls a “constitutionally vulnerable proposal.”

[Mike OReilly]

G&M: Scores of unvaccinated workers are filing wrongful dismissal claims against employers, lawyers say

The deluge of cases sets up a crucial legal test of vaccine mandates imposed by employers, one that pits the individual rights of workers against employers’ health and safety concerns amid a pandemic that has dragged on for almost two years.

[hpeer]

News, possibly good, from the Motherland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59958071

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

G&M: Scores of unvaccinated workers are filing wrongful dismissal claims against employers, lawyers say

The relevant governments need to take action on this item as it has become untenable for employers in most cases. I was in a similar situation and I made the choice to not mandate or I would have had to let someone go. In truth the choice was made from a place of loyalty but made in the knowledge that if that person infected someone here at work I would potentially have been liable for any outcomes. This liability would have been created by the common knowledge that an unvaccinated worker creates more risk for those they are working with.

If this gets left to the courts the question will be so narrow as to lead to only one answer, and it will take so long that the risks of unvaccinated workers will be past.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Oh, I agree. We definitely could put more resources into our healthcare systems. As I've pointed out, we've declined compared to our peer countries with regard to how much we spend on healthcare. And when you analyze healthcare expenditures in this country, we really have flat-lined or severely limited the public component of our systems. It is the private component that has continued to increase beyond inflation.

We could choose to spend more on the public component of healthcare. We could build greater redundancy and more capacity in our systems. But that would either mean higher taxes, or a shift in priorities to take something from somewhere else. None of these choices are easy.

Mike

We could also cut back on our personal discretionary spending for the greater good.

Not that we will, but that was more my point.

Again it is a reflection, a consideration of, personal responsibility.

Philosophical, not very practical. Understanding the general trends and influences is more predictive of behavior. Still not good at it.

[danstanford]

From our local newspaper today lending credibility to the concept that Omicron is much less virulent. I had certainly fallen into the belief that Delta was done and the serious cases were all Omicron.

Four of the 10 people who died from COVID-19 locally in the last month either likely had the Omicron variant of concern or were confirmed to have had it, the medical officer of health said on Wednesday.

“So we have seen deaths associated with Omicron,” Dr. Thomas Piggott told Peterborough Public Health’s board of health virtual meeting Wednesday night.

Other data he offered the board on those 10 people who died:

Six had the Delta variant of concern.
Four were unvaccinated.
Six had received either two or three doses of vaccine (two had been triple-vaccinated).
The average age of the 10 people who died was 76 (youngest was 40, oldest was in their late 90s).
The youngest (age 40) had been unvaccinated.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by N Coast Murray

I don't have a problem with Quebec's proposed tax.

I think it's going too far, and I suspect that it's not constitutional anyway.

If I had it my way (and there were enough health care workers to pull it off) hospitals would be running as normally as possible without other surgeries being cancelled, while unvaccinated Covid patients got cared for in Atco trailers in a back corner of the hospitals parking lot.

Being more serious about that idea - I think that if authorities were worried about a surge in hospitalized COVID cases, they should have been setting up temporary hospitals (in schools, community centers, etc) just for COVID cases. It might not be possible to also set up remote ICUs like that , but at least a surge in COVID hospitalizations wouldn't have as much of an impact on other cases (cancer surgeries etc) that need hospital beds.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I think it's going too far, and I suspect that it's not constitutional anyway.


Being more serious about that idea - I think that if authorities were worried about a surge in hospitalized COVID cases, they should have been setting up temporary hospitals (in schools, community centers, etc) just for COVID cases. It might not be possible to also set up remote ICUs like that , but at least a surge in COVID hospitalizations wouldn't have as much of an impact on other cases (cancer surgeries etc) that need hospital beds.

The HUGE issue is staffing. We're in a real crisis on that front. You can set up all the beds you want - in Atco trailers or in the Taj Mahal - but if you can't staff them they're not going to do a lot of good.

I don't think the general population has any idea just how bad the staffing crisis is.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

The HUGE issue is staffing. We're in a real crisis on that front. You can set up all the beds you want - in Atco trailers or in the Taj Mahal - but if you can't staff them they're not going to do a lot of good.

I don't think the general population has any idea just how bad the staffing crisis is.

I hear you, and we have some friends who are nurses. And of course, if staffing is the problem, how proactive have the health systems been in attracting and training more people, over the almost 2 years of pandemic?

It seems to me that if you had facilities just to treat those suffering with COVID, then you could become more efficient at providing just that care, and it would become simpler to bring in nursing students, EMS staff, military reservists and train them up on this limited set of requirements. And you wouldn't have to isolate the patients from each other.

I guess that the beancounters have determined that it costs less to operate as we are, but there's a high cost to pay in terms of delayed or cancelled treatments, and staff burnout.

[sv_pelagia]

COVID-19 conspiracy theorists need our help

https://www.straight.com/covid-19-pa...-need-our-help

A interesting summary of this "group" here in Canada (from an admittedly "Left-leaning" source).

Conclusions:
In the words of cult deprogrammer and former cult member Diane Benscoter, it's "not going to be an easy process for them to get out of this with their dignity".

So go easy and go slow. It's not going to happen in a day. And by all means, avoid using trigger words like antimasker and antivaxxer.

People can change. It happens all the time.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

We could also cut back on our personal discretionary spending for the greater good.

I guess I don't understand Howard... how would this help our healthcare capacities? Do you mean we should divert more of our discretionary spending towards public healthcare systems?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by danstanford

The relevant governments need to take action on this item as it has become untenable for employers in most cases.

It does seem unfair to simply leave it to individuals and companies to fight it out in the courts. I wonder if the feds could send a reference case or question to the Supreme Court that would produce a more expedient answer to these legal questions.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I hear you, and we have some friends who are nurses. And of course, if staffing is the problem, how proactive have the health systems been in attracting and training more people, over the almost 2 years of pandemic?

It seems to me that if you had facilities just to treat those suffering with COVID, then you could become more efficient at providing just that care, and it would become simpler to bring in nursing students, EMS staff, military reservists and train them up on this limited set of requirements. And you wouldn't have to isolate the patients from each other.

I guess that the beancounters have determined that it costs less to operate as we are, but there's a high cost to pay in terms of delayed or cancelled treatments, and staff burnout.

Exactly. How much of the half a trillion dollars the feds spent in the last two years went towards creating more ICU beds, staff hiring, incentives for manufacturers of PPE and other medical equipment (that we had to beg other countries for and still mainly import) or increasing support of the health care system they keep reminding us that we're supposed to protect from collapse? Bulk of it was spent on paying people to sit at home, why not train them to do hospital laundry, clean, medical transport, package, cook you name it, at least we might have gotten some value for our spending and kept people working.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Being more serious about that idea - I think that if authorities were worried about a surge in hospitalized COVID cases, they should have been setting up temporary hospitals (in schools, community centers, etc) just for COVID cases. It might not be possible to also set up remote ICUs like that , but at least a surge in COVID hospitalizations wouldn't have as much of an impact on other cases (cancer surgeries etc) that need hospital beds.

We did this in many places. Many communities and hospitals expanded their capacities, in some cases by setting up field-type units, and yes, some housed in ATCO trailers.

Ontario, B.C., Quebec begin building makeshift hospitals in preparation for rise in COVID-19 patients

Canadian COVID-19 field hospital that didn’t treat a single patient to be shut down

Canada preparing makeshift hospitals to house patients as COVID-19 pandemic stretches capacity

Like I said earlier, we certainly can expand the physical infrastructure, and build more beds and more ICUs. But as you note, it's the human resource which is more of a challenge. You can't create an ICU nurse, technician or doctor overnight. It takes years of investment and training.

This gets back to the question of how we should run our healthcare systems. We've adopted the business-like approach of letting efficiency and cost-cutting be the driving philosophy. We've changed from serving patients, to having consumers (and taxpayers... who don't want to pay more taxes) drive the system.