Is Lithium Worth it?

[Mainstay]

I've been following this guy for a while now on Youtube.
He has a very interesting perspective when it comes to lithium - see for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPPUqLZOqCQ

[Palarran]

I replaced my FLA bank last year. 1050 amp hour Deka batteries for $1150USD. Unfortunately in the past my banks haven't lasted more than 3 years, mostly due to very poor charging and maintenance. But now with 1300 watts of solar, the bank is recharged fully nearly every day, it isn't discharged past 60%, and should last - oh, crap, probably 3 years. Regardless, I'd have to replace that bank another 5 times to compare to Lithium and don't plan to own the boat that long. So for me, no they are not worth it.

[CarlF]

It's too bad more people don't have gels like the OP. They are great batteries for a monohull cruising boat where weight is not an issue.

The AGM's are the problem. Short lives for anyone who doesn't park most nights in a marina and plug-in. Don't switch to AGM.

If they are available to him, I would advise the OP to look hard at FireFly. Most of the advantages of Lithium (will last 8-10 years, 80% discharge without damage, no need to fully recharge). Nothing new to learn or set (other than increase your Absorption voltage from Gel 14.1V to 14.4V). Firefly's cost about 25% more than Gel or AGMS.

Next up are the "drop-in" Lithium Iron like the Battleborn mentioned previously. The drop-in's - like the name implies - just drop-in. They are the same size as your current battery. They use the same charging settings as AGM's (14.4 absorption and 13.5 float) Each battery has its own BMS that monitors what's going on and disconnects the battery before anything really bad happens. They cost about twice the cost of Gel's or AGM.

Which brings us to the remarkable thing about drop-ins. The better brands like Battleborn have a 5-8 year full replacement warranty. Battleborn offers another two years of partial warranty for a total of 10 years. Who ever heard of a battery with that kind of warranty? And because the BMS is always protecting them, it's very hard to do anything stupid that would invalidate the warranty.

There are a few gotchas. Should all the BMS's turn off (which is almost impossible) while the engine is running it could fry your alternator - just like you can fry your alternator if you stupidly turn off your battery switch with the engine going. There are several ways to protect against this that is easy to research online.

So for the OP I think it comes down to stick with Gel. Upgrade to Firefly for 25% more. Or upgrade to drop-in Lithium Iron for 100% more. All three will last for 8+ years of normal cruising.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mainstay

I've been following this guy for a while now on Youtube.
He has a very interesting perspective when it comes to lithium - see for yourself:

What? Are you touting for this guy?

If you've seen something and you want to tell us about it, go ahead. Don't just point a link. You think we are sheep? we go wherever you say to go to? Not a chance.

[David B]

Originally Posted by wingssail

What? Are you touting for this guy?

If you've seen something and you want to tell us about it, go ahead. Don't just point a link. You think we are sheep? we go wherever you say to go to? Not a chance.

Wow! That's pretty aggressive - and totally unnecessary!

I actually appreciated the link, and found the information very interesting (largely confirming my view that FLA is the best for me).

Thank you for the link - much appreciated (as would be any others people list here that I choose - or not - to investigate).

[Franziska]

As the last few post where on Lead Acid, a little side question.

Say you need to leave the boat for 1/2 a year & have them hooked up to a charger and large solar panels, what do you do to prevent them going dry?
Or is that no issue if they are not under heavy load.
Let's assume there is no one who can look after them in that time.

We have gel batteries at the moment but need to replace them eventually, most likely with FLA.
It won't be Lithium though as we do not have the cash for them initially (they may be cheaper in the long run, but initial price is very high).

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Franziska

As the last few post where on Lead Acid, a little side question.

Say you need to leave the boat for 1/2 a year & have them hooked up to a charger and large solar panels, what do you do to prevent them going dry?
Or is that no issue if they are not under heavy load.
Let's assume there is no one who can look after them in that time.

We have gel batteries at the moment but need to replace them eventually, most likely with FLA.
It won't be Lithium though as we do not have the cash for them initially (they may be cheaper in the long run, but initial price is very high).

If you need to park a boat with FLAs for an extended period I would do 2 things:
A. Set the absorption voltage to to 14.0-14.2v so the batteries out-gas less. The only loads on the batteries should be anchor lights which should be a nominal load of maybe 5A-hr/day plus bilge pumps whose load will depend on how tight you boat it.
B. Buy and use Hydrocaps or similar. They are replacement caps for the original cell caps. These caps have a catalyst in them to promote recombination of hydrogen and oxygen into water before it escapes into the boat.

There will be a little water loss but not nearly as much as otherwise.

Hydrocap |

Each Hydrocap is $18. And they last 2-5 yr of regular charging. It’s not clear whether the issue is calendar life and they just lose effectiveness after a time OT if they lose effectiveness based on the number of charge cycles or the amount of electrolyte vapor that is captured and returned. If the later they can be saved for vacations and other extended periods away from the boat.

With the small amount of charging needed and the reduced voltage you may get by fine for 6mo without watering the cells.

[Franziska]

Thanks for this very good answer. Learned something new from it!

Originally Posted by Adelie

If you need to park a boat with FLAs for an extended period I would do 2 things:
A. Set the absorption voltage to to 14.0-14.2v so the batteries out-gas less. The only loads on the batteries should be anchor lights which should be a nominal load of maybe 5A-hr/day plus bilge pumps whose load will depend on how tight you boat it.
B. Buy and use Hydrocaps or similar. They are replacement caps for the original cell caps. These caps have a catalyst in them to promote recombination of hydrogen and oxygen into water before it escapes into the boat.

There will be a little water loss but not nearly as much as otherwise.

Hydrocap |

Each Hydrocap is $18. And they last 2-5 yr of regular charging. It’s not clear whether the issue is calendar life and they just lose effectiveness after a time OT if they lose effectiveness based on the number of charge cycles or the amount of electrolyte vapor that is captured and returned. If the later they can be saved for vacations and other extended periods away from the boat.

With the small amount of charging needed and the reduced voltage you may get by fine for 6mo without watering the cells.

[Michael Cobbe]

Lithiumm batteries have caughfire in planes and and cars.


Lithium-ion batteries commonly used in consumer electronics are notorious for bursting into flame when damaged or improperly packaged. ... "If the battery is damaged and the plastic layer fails, the electrodes can come into contact and cause the battery's liquid electrolyte to catch fire

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Michael Cobbe

Lithiumm batteries have caughfire in planes and and cars.


Lithium-ion batteries commonly used in consumer electronics are notorious for bursting into flame when damaged or improperly packaged. ... "If the battery is damaged and the plastic layer fails, the electrodes can come into contact and cause the battery's liquid electrolyte to catch fire

That's why boats normally use Lithium-iron (LiFePo4) batteries.

[Mainstay]

Originally Posted by David B

Wow! That's pretty aggressive - and totally unnecessary!

I actually appreciated the link, and found the information very interesting (largely confirming my view that FLA is the best for me).

Thank you for the link - much appreciated (as would be any others people list here that I choose - or not - to investigate).

David, you're welcome!

I thought we all could learn something from this guy - it was an eye opener to me.

For me the biggest advantage of lithium is the weight saving, so I'm still going ahead with my conversion from FLA to lithium.

Fair winds!

[SV_Sweet_Ruca]

LifePO4 won for us, here’s why:

-Cost/AH/Time (battery costs averaged over 10 years vs 3)
-Size/Space (gained storage space at the same time as doubled usable Ah)
-Maintenance (less maintenance, no top offs, no spills/gas)
-Weight (savings of over 200lbs)
-Charging Speed

No opinion on which is the right or wrong way to go, as each should choose what works best for their use and application.