DC to DC charger - not needed for boats with proper alternators.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

The issue is that Lithium and Lead need significantly different charging profiles. On my boat, the alternator is doing strictly what the Lithium BMS is calling for, and that would not be healthy for the Lead.

The prime example is that most of the time, I want my Lithiums sitting at between 13.2v and 13.3v where it's best to let them rest, but I want the Lead to be sitting at 13.8v, which is where you want to store Lead.

The Orion-Tr I have was like $200, which isn't significantly more expensive than other options, and does its job with aplomb.

Why do you want to keep your bank at a 75% or so charge?
13.8 is right in there 90% to 95% when charging just like the Fla battery likes.
Now in storage I see it at 13.2 but daily use 13.8 charged and 12.8 by morning running the fridge.

But in the end your boat your choice

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Why do you want to keep your bank at a 75% or so charge?
13.8 is right in there 90% to 95% when charging just like the Fla battery likes.
Now in storage I see it at 13.2 but daily use 13.8 charged and 12.8 by morning running the fridge.

But in the end your boat your choice

I'm talking about when the boat is alongside. When I'm actually using the boat, yeah, I'll let the BMS do whatever it wants to take the battery up to 100% SoC. But when she's alongside in the marina and I'm halfway across the world, I let it drift down.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

.

The Orion-Tr I have was like $200, which isn't significantly more expensive than other options, and does its job with aplomb.

For us it would be a victron 24v/17amp Orion

The issue I have is that a Maxwell 3500 windlass is working off of the starts.
We spent a year without an alternator at all and whist the 240v 24v/12a Victron charger worked and kept the batts in seemingly good shape I'm not convinced I did the batts any favours versus having 50 or more amps smashing in from an alt while doing the lift.

[Putt-Putt]

Simi 60

I run a 36SI 105 Amp @ 24V (PN 8600398) controlled by a Balmar MC 624 off one of my 18 liter Cats.
These are brushless alternators where the field coil is stationary. Removal of the original internal regulator is easy to do, all you need is a foot or so of 14 ga. high temp. Insulated wire and a few properly sized ring terminals. From there you wire up the 624 completely including the ability to shut the alternator off via a switch on the brown wire.

I programmed the 624 to limit the field current to produce 80 Amps max and see about 70 Amps at 3500 alternator rpm. Max. run time (outputing over 50 Amps) to date is 4 hours. It survived. Easily.

Only just over a year old and 300 hours, the alternator runs with a case temperature of about 130 F. (the rectifier diodes are likley close to 200F.) and the 624 has yet to reduce field current due to an overheat. I have good ventilation as the ER runs only about 10 degrees F higher than ambient until shutdown. Underway it's breezy down there.

When pressed Delco's engineering department advised that 3000 RPM was the worst speed from a cooling perspective to run the alternator, so I don't run at speed, although if you did I suspect the 25 percent derate would save your bacon.

[Renegde_Sailor]

FWIW I am running a Balmar MC-618 on a 120A Hitachi style alternator on my 4JH3E, using the belt load manager keeps it from squealing up a storm.

I also have the shunt and the Bluetooth module that connects to my phone for programming.

I cannot recommend this regulator enough!

With the temp probe I am not letting the alternator run over 80°C which is a big issue if you let them run too hot too long, as well when charging because I do not run the engine at full RPM (around 1400) the alternator does not spin as fast, which means the fan does not spin as fast, which means there is less cooling air hitting it.

Trying to charge a house bank without a temp sensor that can protect the alternator is just silly!

I am running a 12v system, from my alternator it goes to a Victorn Battery Isolator, one side charges the start battery, the other the house bank, my house bank is mounted forward under the V-berth so I have 2 pairs of 2/0 running to it.

As well using a Victron Cirix I am charging my anchor windlass battery that is separate from the system, as well I have a manual switch I can kick over which will allow me to have the anchor battery stand in as the house bank, and with another switch either the house bank or the anchor battery can be used to start the engine in an emergency.

As well I have a pair of Victron MPPT-30/100's pushing power into the system.

Also I have a Victron 3000W Multiplus, and it is good kit getting the job done as far as making power, I don't get to use it to charge often as I am rarely at the dock, but when I do, it works well.

Although I do have yet to stuff the Lithium's in it, right now running a pair of 200AH Renogy Gels in an 8D form-factor, going to switch to 6x of the 100AH Lithium's soon, but as for right now even though I am working the snot out of that alternator, the MC-618 is doing one heck of a job keeping up with it.

I will say eventually I want to throw one of Balmar's alternators on there as well, I can modify the cabinet a bit and have enough room for the big body, so eventually that is probably the way I will go, well assuming I don't buy another boat first.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

FWIW I am running a Balmar MC-618 on a 120A Hitachi style alternator on my 4JH3E, using the belt load manager keeps it from squealing up a storm.

I also have the shunt and the Bluetooth module that connects to my phone for programming.

I cannot recommend this regulator enough!

With the temp probe I am not letting the alternator run over 80°C which is a big issue if you let them run too hot too long, as well when charging because I do not run the engine at full RPM (around 1400) the alternator does not spin as fast, which means the fan does not spin as fast, which means there is less cooling air hitting it.

Trying to charge a house bank without a temp sensor that can protect the alternator is just silly!

I am running a 12v system, from my alternator it goes to a Victorn Battery Isolator, one side charges the start battery, the other the house bank, my house bank is mounted forward under the V-berth so I have 2 pairs of 2/0 running to it.

As well using a Victron Cirix I am charging my anchor windlass battery that is separate from the system, as well I have a manual switch I can kick over which will allow me to have the anchor battery stand in as the house bank, and with another switch either the house bank or the anchor battery can be used to start the engine in an emergency.

As well I have a pair of Victron MPPT-30/100's pushing power into the system.

Also I have a Victron 3000W Multiplus, and it is good kit getting the job done as far as making power, I don't get to use it to charge often as I am rarely at the dock, but when I do, it works well.

Although I do have yet to stuff the Lithium's in it, right now running a pair of 200AH Renogy Gels in an 8D form-factor, going to switch to 6x of the 100AH Lithium's soon, but as for right now even though I am working the snot out of that alternator, the MC-618 is doing one heck of a job keeping up with it.

I will say eventually I want to throw one of Balmar's alternators on there as well, I can modify the cabinet a bit and have enough room for the big body, so eventually that is probably the way I will go, well assuming I don't buy another boat first.

When do you want to sail south to Cali I need to hop off in San Diego.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by newhaul

When do you want to sail south to Cali I need to hop off in San Diego.

What happened? Did your boat sink?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

What happened? Did your boat sink?

No just wanted to assist your dream a bit. My oldest is getting married tomorrow .Wednesday the 21st actually today in 14 hours

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by newhaul

No just wanted to assist your dream a bit. My oldest is getting married tomorrow .Wednesday the 21st actually today in 14 hours

I was wondering because you always said you were going to chase me down the coast!



Good luck on the wedding.

On that note, ever notice how a wedding march is just a death march sped up?

[s/v Jedi]

To be clear, there are two requirements for charging a lithium bank from the alternator:

1. A smart regulator with correct charging profile AND a temperature sensor mounted on the alternator to derate when it overheats.

2. A BMS capable of shutting down the alternator just before a HVC happens. This is why many choose another option because those BMS’s cost more.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

To be clear, there are two requirements for charging a lithium bank from the alternator:

1. A smart regulator with correct charging profile AND a temperature sensor mounted on the alternator to derate when it overheats.

2. A BMS capable of shutting down the alternator just before a HVC happens. This is why many choose another option because those BMS’s cost more.

We'll, we have 2.
And you can set the parameters to shut down charge before that event happens

And if you have 1.
You should be able to set it to stop charge before a HVC happens

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

.

When pressed Delco's engineering department advised that 3000 RPM was the worst speed from a cooling perspective to run the alternator, so I don't run at speed, although if you did I suspect the 25 percent derate would save your bacon.

They are an 8000 rpm alt
I find it hard to believe that 3000rpm is to much for them

Unless you mean engine rpm
1850 is max on ours and we ain't going there.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We'll, we have 2.
And you can set the parameters to shut down charge before that event happens

And if you have 1.
You should be able to set it to stop charge before a HVC happens

The transient surge that destroys rectifier diodes in an alternator doesn’t last a second. We’re literally talking about milliseconds. The temperature sensor will not help at all for this.

Only the BMS knows when a HVC will occur because only the BMS has access to individual cell data. The alternator regulator has no clue.

[Putt-Putt]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

They are an 8000 rpm alt
I find it hard to believe that 3000rpm is to much for them

Unless you mean engine rpm
1850 is max on ours and we ain't going there.

Delco states that they are able to be run at 10,000 RPM continuous. Unless the crank pulley on your diesel auxiliary is >12" in diameter you likely have no chance in over revving the alternator. Particularly if your engine is limited to 1850 RPM. Really?

The problem is that at 3000 RPM the fan is delivering about 30 percent of it's cooling capacity while the windings are generating about 75 percent of the maximum output, which also means it's producing 75 percent of the maximum heat.

Running this way with the Delco internal regulator which has no clue what temperature is and can't reduce field current based on temperature, you will likely cook it.

[terry298656]

DC to DC charger - not needed for boats, not all