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Old 26-05-2020, 03:48   #1
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Finding registered owner of boat

Hi cruisers,

I was wondering how I would go about in finding out the owner of a boat registered in Europe e.g. Italy. I'm primarily interested in making the owner an offer to buy the boat since the broker is basically useless and is more interested in protecting his commission.

Thanks for any advise.
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Old 26-05-2020, 03:57   #2
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

So he doesn't want to transmit your offer to the owner? In that case good luck trying to short-circuit him. You could try the yard if the boat is on the hard or the marina management if it is in the water.
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Old 26-05-2020, 04:49   #3
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

Would the registration details not be a matter of public record? You'd think so, for the purposes of people making insurance claims. Did you try contacting the registry office?
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Old 27-05-2020, 01:41   #4
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

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Originally Posted by Captn_Black View Post
Would the registration details not be a matter of public record? You'd think so, for the purposes of people making insurance claims. Did you try contacting the registry office?
I tried contacting them via email but no response.
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Old 27-05-2020, 01:45   #5
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

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Originally Posted by fly2kite View Post
I tried contacting them via email but no response.
I bet if someone made new email address and pretended to be an insurance company it would work. But I doubt that is legal so don't do it.
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Old 27-05-2020, 01:46   #6
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

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Originally Posted by sailormed View Post
So he doesn't want to transmit your offer to the owner? In that case good luck trying to short-circuit him. You could try the yard if the boat is on the hard or the marina management if it is in the water.
Right - which I find strange and potentially not even legal. There should be a fiduciary requirement to submit any offers to the owner.

It is rather difficult b/c the broker hasn't even seen the boat and has no maintenance report on file but is blocking any offer that is not close to the initial asking price b/c it is considered in good condition, which it is not (not even sure if the owner knows the condition of the boat given it was in charter).
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Old 27-05-2020, 02:09   #7
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

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Originally Posted by fly2kite View Post
Right - which I find strange and potentially not even legal. There should be a fiduciary requirement to submit any offers to the owner.

It is rather difficult b/c the broker hasn't even seen the boat and has no maintenance report on file but is blocking any offer that is not close to the initial asking price b/c it is considered in good condition, which it is not (not even sure if the owner knows the condition of the boat given it was in charter).
Given the current financial climate, taking your time with this will probably be in your favour. You might even find something better soon.
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Old 27-05-2020, 07:08   #8
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

I assume you've seen the boat as you know its condition. Have you talked to the yard/marina? The brokerage agreement may require a commission be paid whether you go around the broker or not given you have contacted them. Every broker does it for the commission and no commission is paid unless the boat sells. Don't know the rules where you are, but in California, all offers must be presented to seller. Put it in writing. They may require a fairly large good faith deposit so make sure of the dealer. In today's market a lot of low ball offers are flying around. It only takes a minute for the seller to tell the dealer a counter, or no interest.
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Old 27-05-2020, 07:12   #9
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

Did you submit your offer in writing?

With a deposit?


For some reason, they aren't taking you seriously.
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Old 27-05-2020, 07:15   #10
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

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Did you submit your offer in writing?
Yes, via email with expiration date but without deposit. The broker didn't even reply. It was ~33% below asking (but given condition I thought a fair price - boat was in charter for 10 years).
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Old 27-05-2020, 08:17   #11
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

My broker will not accept offers without a deposit. Sort of unprofessional he didn't at least respond.
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Old 27-05-2020, 08:22   #12
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

Italian boats are registered by locality although I'll be the records go in somekind of national database. The register in Anzio has many large handwritten ledgers. The first 2 letters of the reg number will tell you where.

A 66% offer is likely not going to get you anywhere. I looked at a few boats in Italy last year and found that the asking price to sale price was much thinner.

One other thing is that many boats in Italy have multiple brokers representing them. Try to find another broker offering the same boat. This does make for an interesting bidding war on occaision.

Good luck.
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Old 27-05-2020, 08:49   #13
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2kite View Post
Right - which I find strange and potentially not even legal. There should be a fiduciary requirement to submit any offers to the owner.

It is rather difficult b/c the broker hasn't even seen the boat and has no maintenance report on file but is blocking any offer that is not close to the initial asking price b/c it is considered in good condition, which it is not (not even sure if the owner knows the condition of the boat given it was in charter).
Brokers will RARELY have a maintenance record on file, even if the owner maintains one. Not all owners maintain a maintenance file. I certainly don't.

You have no idea what discussions the owner has had with THEIR broker. It is common to agree on a listing price and a 'bottom price'. As in "Don't bother calling me with offers for less than 'x'". This is very, very common. Neither parties want to be spinning their wheels with low-ballers and tire-kickers.

Your perception of what is occurring simply sounds misplaced and your expectations unreasonable. The fact that you are attempting to circumvent the broker AND attempt to get government agencies to divulge private information are both somewhat unethical.
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Old 27-05-2020, 09:16   #14
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

Ask to see the boat again. While you are there look for any registration on the boat.
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Old 27-05-2020, 09:42   #15
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Re: Finding registered owner of boat

I had the same issue with a broker in Grenada last year. I made a written offer, using his form, and was supposed to send a deposit as soon as the offer is accepted. Never heard back from him and I was negotiating with him for months about a charter catamaran. Both by email and over the phone. Not even dare to send an email saying "sorry your offer was rejected by the owner".

Maybe it's time to start a "Rate my Broker" website. Or even better a commission-free online boats for sale transactionnal website, something like this real estate website here in Canada. https://duproprio.com/en
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