Two men missing in South Australian waters off Port Lincoln

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

ABC news says the owner has been fined $1000 for out of date safety equipment (EPIRB and flares)and not having the required Skipper's certification.

There’s a required skipper’s certification?

They must mean the South Australian Boat License.

And surely they are being zapped for not having a functional VHF?

Oh well, just bloody glad they are safe. I really thought they were goners.

[ChrisJHC]

The philosophy in Aus is not to charge for rescues because they don’t want people to delay calling for help until things have really gone bad.

Better to be called out to the occasional case of poor decision-making than recovering dead bodies.

[BenBowSirocco]

Glad to hear these men made it!

ChrisJHC:
The same reasoning exists for the USCG. If they were to charge what a rescue really costs, no one would call until it was a situation out of any form of control and would almost certainly endanger the rescue team and its assets.

In my opinion, its tax dollars that fund the entire SAR show (in the USA anyways) and as such it is part of the rights of a citizen. Although this does not condone irresponsible actions like leaving without proper equipment like, VHF hardwired, VHF handheld (+backup in ditch bag), flares, spares etc. These men clearly were unprepared and made irresponsible decisions in direct violations the AU safety requirements and deserve a penalty for making that choice- but at least it was not their lives.

[GILow]

I was once audited by the local water police for compliance (after bringing myself to their attention through my own lack of attention to a change in the rules around the display of registration letters).

The officer was polite and serious, and asked me to produce item after item.

At the end of the process he seemed quite surprised and very warmly thanked me for “taking safety so seriously” (and suggested I fix my boat rego letters). There was no fine and he gave me a completed and signed safety checklist for my records.

It was only later that it occurred to me, all I had shown him was exactly what the rules clearly stated I should be carrying. Nothing more and nothing less.

His apparent sense of surprise led me to wonder just how many boats they audit each year that do and don’t carry the regulation equipment. I am guessing a lot do not.

[ilenart]

Latest response from the skipper. Hit a turtle or a log and lost a blade on his prop, so speed went from 7 knots to 2-3 knots and voyage went from 4 to 8 days. Never set off epirb or flares as they were not in distress. Appears pretty experience. Sounds like the main thing they should of done was tell someone about the longer trip, however appears they had no way of communicating (are the VHF repeaters on Kangaroo Island working, or are they still out of action from the bush fires?).

Main thing is glad they are both safe.

Ilenart

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-...-boat/12653378

[GILow]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Latest response from the skipper. Hit a turtle or a log and lost a blade on his prop, so speed went from 7 knots to 2-3 knots and voyage went from 4 to 8 days. Never set off epirb or flares as they were not in distress. Appears pretty experience. Sounds like the main thing they should of done was tell someone about the longer trip, however appears they had no way of communicating (are the VHF repeaters on Kangaroo Island working, or are they still out of action from the bush fires?).

Main thing is glad they are both safe.

Ilenart

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-...-boat/12653378

I was sailing down there a few weeks ago and VHF comms were fine. Not sure if any repeaters were out of action but we were spoiled for choice when it came to.staying in touch with VMR.

[ilenart]

Originally Posted by GILow

I was sailing down there a few weeks ago and VHF comms were fine. Not sure if any repeaters were out of action but we were spoiled for choice when it came to.staying in touch with VMR.

Ok, so sounds like their VHF was out of action, or not turned on. Certainly looked like a VHF aerial on the boat in yesterday’s video. If the skipper didn’t have his SA boat licence then maybe he does not have his VHF licence either?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Ok, so sounds like their VHF was out of action, or not turned on. Certainly looked like a VHF aerial on the boat in yesterday’s video. If the skipper didn’t have his SA boat licence then maybe he does not have his VHF licence either?

I sometimes suspect boaters who hold both qualifications are in the minority here in South Australia.

I have lost track of the number of guys who have said to me, while conversing about their boat...”I suppose I should get my license one of these days...”

As for the VHF... you only need to leave the radio on Channel 16 for a few minutes on the weekend to hear half a dozen non-compliant check-ins. The patience shown by the VMR guys is astounding. “Caniva a radio check?” mumbled into the mike with no other context is a sure sign of someone who does not realise this is not an AM CB.

Just last weekend I was tooling along before dawn to hear a “work boat” announce, on Channel 16, that he was heading for Stansbury from Adelaide with two people on board.

When I say announce, I mean he didn’t actually attempt contact any of the many VMR stations available, he just kind of announced his intentions to the air. Nothing else, no eta, no rego, nada.

There was, of course, no response, and he didn’t follow up with any kind of a check to see if anyone was paying attention.

I made a note, I figured it could be helpful at the inquest.

But I’ve learned that there is no level of politeness you can employ with those guys to suggest they need to actually seek confirmation of their message that won’t get you loudly abused for being a “bl—dy w—ker!”

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Ok, so sounds like their VHF was out of action, or not turned on. Certainly looked like a VHF aerial on the boat in yesterday’s video. If the skipper didn’t have his SA boat licence then maybe he does not have his VHF licence either?

Looking at the age of the boat and it's apparent past history as a 'riverboat' I suspect it might never have had a VHF; maybe only an old marine CB (27MHz) and unserviceable at that.

I note SA requires a "a two-way marine radio capable of communication with onshore stations" Curious - is there any SA onshore stations still working 27MHz?

EDIT: Crossed posted with GILow

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Latest response from the skipper. Hit a turtle or a log and lost a blade on his prop, so speed went from 7 knots to 2-3 knots and voyage went from 4 to 8 days. Never set off epirb or flares as they were not in distress. ........

I have to totally agree with his reasoning on this aspect. And I note he was kind enough to apologise to SA via the ABC interview.

Maybe next time he could take along a AM receiver and pick up the national news once a day but maybe this is one of the many reasons we go to sea - to get away from the news cycle.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I note SA requires a "a two-way marine radio capable of communication with onshore stations" Curious - is there any SA onshore stations still working 27MHz?

Yes, last I checked all of the VMR stations had 88 and/or 86.

But the VMR guys I have met and spoken to say that they mostly only get AM activity on the long weekends when "grandpa pulls the runabout out of the shed".

(It was a topic of concern to me a few years ago when I was deciding whether to keep the AM radio on the boat. I was convinced by the VMR guys that two VHF radios would be better than one of each.)

Edit: I just checked on the SA Government web site and the only document I could find with the VMR frequencies and schedules had no date on it. But I do know it is significantly out of date as some of the names listed left the roles up to five years ago, maybe longer.

[GILow]

Meanwhile, an ABC reporter is sent off to buy a dictionary...

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by Mr B

From a friend thats into the official side of things,
They are considering hitting them for the costs of the search,
9.5 Grand an hour,
But we will see what happens,

if they did not send out a mayday or ask to be searched for, i don't see how the authorities can bill them for it

but guess these days, anything can happen...

cheers,

[GILow]

Originally Posted by chrisr

if they did not send out a mayday or ask to be searched for, i don't see how the authorities can bill them for it



but guess these days, anything can happen...



cheers,

I agree with the principle expressed earlier that charging for the rescue costs has a potentially deterrent effect that might prove fatal.

I am guessing though, that the absence of the correct safety gear on board and the absence of its mandated operation (I.e a listening watch) might leave a boat operator in a poor legal position, should the authorities wish to pursue costs.

At the end of the day I think the authorities are inclined to be pragmatic. Nobody died performing the search, it was good practice, the whole event made the news so people heard about the great work the SAR teams do and finally, the boat operators in question seem to have been appropriately apologetic for the fuss they caused.

Chalk it all up to experience and a much needed good news story in these terrible times.

(This is not legal advice and is worth precisely what the reader paid for it. If you get a massive bill for your own rescue, please don’t look to me for help in paying.)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by GILow

I agree with the principle expressed earlier that charging for the rescue costs has a potentially deterrent effect that might prove fatal.

I am guessing though, that the absence of the correct safety gear on board and the absence of its mandated operation (I.e a listening watch) might leave a boat operator in a poor legal position, should the authorities wish to pursue costs.

Attempting to get a definitive statement I found a couple of semi-relevant references.



https://www.thegreynomads.com.au/str...cue-cost-fear/

Over the years there have been a number of calls for people who become lost or stranded in the bush or in the water, to be forced to foot the bill for their own rescue … but police insist that the safety of the individual should always be paramount.
The statement follows the case of three fishermen who spent Sunday night on the water after the motor on their 4.5m recreational vessel failed to start at Bynoe Harbour in the Northern Territory. Although the men discharged four rocket flares throughout the night, they chose not to activate their EPIRB because they were concerned they would incur the cost of the search and rescue.
...
“If you are in a distress situation where there is a direct imminent risk to you and your crew and you have exhausted all other efforts of self-rescue then activate your EPIRB, and this will allow emergency services to locate and assist you.” he said. “The safety of you and your crew is paramount and you will not incur the cost of a search and rescue if you do need help.”

https://www.anao.gov.au/work/perform...ery-principles


AMSA does not recover the cost of its search and rescue operations, which are funded by the government as part of AMSA’s community service obligations.