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Old 15-09-2020, 11:24   #1
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Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Yes. I know most of us care.

But, clearly, our care is NOT enough. We are too few, and our actions get lost in the damage brought about with "development" and "progress".

Development and progress bring more money to people who already own a lot, while destroying the world for everybody. In the same process, by working and consuming as we do, we add our own damage - small on individual scale, but huge once added up.

Awareness of such facts makes me extremely sad.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-un-report-aoe


Yours,
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Old 15-09-2020, 14:15   #2
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Barny old boy, you got to stop reading that crap, a fair bit of it is fake news written by folk who have a vested interest in making your life miserable. If you can do something about it do, otherwise as the great Ronny said, don't worry, be happy.
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Old 15-09-2020, 14:19   #3
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Well gee, just crawl into a cave and wait to die. Just do so quietly please. There are people with things to do.

Go to PragerU and watch some videos.
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Old 15-09-2020, 14:24   #4
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

This is a wide net.

A nice person I know is very excited they are building an Amazon distribution center near our home.

I was like "great" more **** from China that will break next month.

We really need a "fix some broken Amazon ****" factory.
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Old 15-09-2020, 14:36   #5
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

The Graun’s news section isn’t the worst. Their social commentary - lets say - is a bit to the left side of the spectrum😁
Most of developed world’s economies run on consumer purchases. If it wasn’t for all the carp on the shelves, Wall Street and the City would dry up and blow away.

Take dos cervezas, a couple of puffs, and think of another boat project to get involved with. Let us know how you feel in the morning.
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Old 15-09-2020, 14:39   #6
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

the guardian is not fake news, it is just reporting facts about the world.


Cruising should be a low impact activity so that we can be a beacon of hope for humanity in the future to still have a good time, but instead it is one of the highest impact recreational activities and enjoyed by an over privileged few. It is so bastardized that fees are everywhere in place to exclude all but a rich minority from many destinations and other rights.

Cruisers can sure afford to stop using engines as well as flying places in airplanes, but stubbornly refuse to out of pure selfishness. The end game is near and the cruising world has a huge debt to pay, what will the history books read? It seems most in our community are not morally much different from past slave owners like George Washington who don't want to give up their lifestyle's conveniences to do what is morally right.
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Old 15-09-2020, 15:02   #7
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Well gee, just crawl into a cave and wait to die. Just do so quietly please. There are people with things to do.

Go to PragerU and watch some videos.

Doh.



The other attitude is, I think, called (in English) a happy go lucky.


Also known as a 'I am out of it' (BrE in this case).


And us people with things to do - what are we doing exactly? (is watching videos 'doing' anything ?)



Things to do sounds an easy way out, 'Honey, leave daddy alone, he has things to do now' (read: you dad is playing computer games and your mommy is chatting to her mother on the phone).


I do not buy 'people with things to do' thing. It is and easy way out of a difficult subject.


ymmv


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Old 15-09-2020, 15:14   #8
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes. I know most of us care.
As you've seen in just a handful of comments, no I don't think that's the case on CF. But do consider the audience... mainly people from the privileged western countries who have been successful enough to indulge in cruising. Past success is a pretty solid vote for the status quo, with not much interest in reflection or guilt.

All one can do is express concern, try to influence things locally, and to at least keep one's own corner of the world as clean and low-impact as they can.
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Old 15-09-2020, 15:23   #9
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Nay.

I do not think it is fake news. In the first place - why call 'news' something that relates to things that have been happening (not happening, in this case) over last 20 years? There is nothing new in such news.

Guardian has its lean, they are not maybe quite there with the BBC, but there is nothing fake in pointing at the fact that 20 years ago top leaders, scientists and businessmen talked about saving biodiversity, made 20 targets - and now we find all 20 have been missed.

CF is fake news. It is an Alt-R forum full of old whit males discussing diesel engines.

;-)

Joking.

But you probably agree it is not fake news, even though the Guardian is known for discussing environment and social matters much more often than any US based source.

If we come to saying every environment discussion is fake news, then this forum is dead. We cannot live outside of this environment, for there is no other one.

So what I am saying is - it is not about news - it is about our fail, and about our failure to see beyond the tip of our dollar.

I am not depressive. Neither one of those that believe that we can make this planet green again.


Yours,
b.
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Old 15-09-2020, 16:10   #10
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

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Barny old boy, you got to stop reading that crap, a fair bit of it is fake news written by folk who have a vested interest in making your life miserable. If you can do something about it do, otherwise as the great Ronny said, don't worry, be happy.
Fake news? Don't think so. Based on my own, personal, direct experience in my lifetime I have seen:

- In the American Keys almost 100% loss of branching corals and a high percentage of other species of hard corals.

- Species of fish that were once prolific are so depleted that they are no longer viable for commercial fishermen. Prime example, Atlantic Cod.

- In the oceans and beaches you see trash everywhere. On the windward beaches in the Bahamas walking on the beach you have to clean the large globs of tar off your feet before you can board your boat. In addition to the tar the beaches are littered with tons of plastic. Hundreds of miles at sea you see styrofoam cups and floating balloons frequently, every single day.

- An underground spring in north Florida that was named the Crystal Cathedral due to the perfectly clear water and snow white limestone walls, where the water flow was so strong that divers risked being swept away is now totally stagnant. Rarely any water flow at all and the water is so murky that the best of times visibility might be 15-20'.

Just a short list.
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Old 15-09-2020, 16:36   #11
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Interesting story. I read it as a mixed bag of successes and failures. The top headline doesn't convey the complexity of the report, but the story does a pretty good job. Amusing that some here immediately react with accusations of "fake news" or left bias.

There is nothing fake about the degradation of many of our planet's ecosystems. And there's nothing fake about our collective complicity in the activities that produce this outcome.

How people respond to these facts are up to each of us. I've certainly made choices to try and limit my impact on this planet, including my choice to live a cruising lifestyle. But I'm no eco-hero by any means. Humans have as much a right to live and thrive on this planet as other critters. And this means having some impacts.

It's a complex situation; just as the story and the UN report says. It's not black and white, win or lose. It's also very real.
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Old 15-09-2020, 17:12   #12
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

"the guardian is not fake news, it is just reporting facts about the world."

Years ago I made a decision as to where I would seek knowledge on stuff I was interested in. The Guardian was well down the list and a number of places below the lady who sells crystals at the weekend market in the park in a veracity basis.
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Old 15-09-2020, 17:22   #13
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
"the guardian is not fake news, it is just reporting facts about the world."

Years ago I made a decision as to where I would seek knowledge on stuff I was interested in. The Guardian was well down the list and a number of places below the lady who sells crystals at the weekend market in the park in a veracity basis.
How or where do you get news and information that you consider credible?
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Old 15-09-2020, 17:28   #14
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

No it's not fake news. Years ago I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to take a class in Human Ecology from Garrett Hardin. A genius, and very humble man who grew up on a farm and understood the common sense things you can observe there. He went on to write some amazing, if not disturbing, books and essays. They are worth a read. Many folks like to quote their titles but I am not sure they have read them.
Tragedy of the Commons
Limits of Altruism
Lifeboat Ethics (essay)
If everyone read them, we could all make better decisions, collectively, but it might be going against our base instincts; humans, and many living things, don't always behave in what may appear to be a smart way, as in, to survive.

At the same time I was taking his class I was taking an Econ 101 class. The first day of class the professor asked us, why are the whales going extinct? Of course, we all had answers. He said, no. It's because no one owns the whales. Since no one owns them no one has a vested interest in protecting them. Why are 90% of the large predatory fish gone from the ocean? The ocean they live in is not owned, or guarded and protected by anyone.
It left a big impression on me. IF we want to protect anything we will have to own it or fabricate some fiction of ownership and authority to protect a species or a reef system. The problem is, how will you own water or air that is free to move across boundaries?
Collectively, we as a species will have to get together and negotiate treaties and laws we can enforce and abide by or suffer the same fate that all other life forms suffer when they overpopulate their habitat, a massive die off, usually at the hands of a opportunistic disease or lack of food. Populations will rise and fall dramatically until a balance is established, probably by a predator.
These things are not really right or left, or liberal or conservative. His strong feelings about immigration leading to an overpopulation and overexploitation of resources did not win him many friends at all among the "left" but I think his concern was not racial but what would have to be done from a biological point of view to sustain a balance of resource use and recovery. He didn't see a non-stop population growth as sustainable. He also didn't think much of economic models that defined the health of an economy in terms of continuous growth. That was the logic of a cancer cell.
Our population is continuing to grow, within a finite system. Either we figure out how to limit the growth and use resources in a sustainable way, or nature will do it for us.
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Old 15-09-2020, 17:28   #15
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Re: Are You Troubled ENOUGH ?

A broad range even including the ABC (I know it's dangerous to your mental health but I'm a current affairs tragic and will even read the labels on a candy bar during TV adds if their is nothing better available)
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