TS5 Hallucine capsizes off Spain, hit UFO

[B23iL23]

It would be very, very unusual to have a tether connected on a boat while sitting in the cockpit in under 20 knots of wind. Yes when the weather gets snotty, yes when you leave the cockpit.

Might have saved or might not. We'll probably never know.

Originally Posted by Yihang

I noticed nobody on Hallucine was wearing a tether on the ARC. I know the argument is at 20 knots you go over you drown from being dragged, but in this case it might have saved his life. I wonder if it's a culture/peer pressure thing but I noticed no one in a Mausaudon video ever wears a tether. Surely it's not too much of a bother to have a MOB AIS device and a tether when you are helming alone on a crossing.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by fxykty

?????

Width of the hull has nothing to do with righting moment nor stability.

The height of bridgedeck clearance has nothing to do with righting moment nor stability.

Your cat is relatively heavy, so it has wide hulls to provide the underwater volume to support that displacement. A lighter cat such as the TS5 can have narrower hulls as it needs less volume underwater.

stats do not support your arguments. Thin hulled seem to come out inverted relatively often. Btw , i do not count outremer in this category as design is well balanced.

New models come out more becuase of potential buyers wishes. Give me light, thin hull, high bridgedeck. And that what you get.

[hpeer]

Where are you seeing pictures and getting reports?

[thinwater]

There was an anti-capsize system.


"Made by ACS, this monitors pitch and heel angle and is set to release the main and spinnaker sheet from a panel of cam cleats once certain settings are reached, and also set off an audible alarm. There is also a kill cord in the saloon. It’s a very simple system."

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Yihang

I noticed nobody on Hallucine was wearing a tether on the ARC. I know the argument is at 20 knots you go over you drown from being dragged, but in this case it might have saved his life. I wonder if it's a culture/peer pressure thing but I noticed no one in a Mausaudon video ever wears a tether. Surely it's not too much of a bother to have a MOB AIS device and a tether when you are helming alone on a crossing.

Having safety equipment does not make one safe. Knowledge makes one safe, and in some cases safety equipment can make one less safe.

[oscarkramer]

I just received word that my brother-in-law, known French racer Regis Guillemot with 3 crewmembers, struck a partially submerged container and sank, with one crewmember lost. They were off La Coruna, Spain on the way to Martinique. The cat was a new (< 2years old) Marsaudon Composites 50' all-carbon cruising cat. They were likely sailing around 20 kts when they hit the container and pitch-poled. The details are sketchy still, but it sounds like one hull was severely compromised, while the other kept the boat from sinking immediately. The surviving crew made it into the life-raft and managed to send a signal. They were recovered 12 hours later by a cargo ship and taken to the Azores. This is the same boat, "Hallucine", that was first over the line in last year's ARC. Pics of the boat can be googled.

This is a horrible tragedy for all involved, and it has me wondering. Firstly, fast cruising cat sailors (including my bro-in-law) argue that there is safety in speed: being able to out-run the weather and minimizing time exposed to the elements. That made sense to me until this event. Now a slow aluminum hull sounds a lot more attractive.

Secondly, here is yet another story of a tragedy caused by the clear negligence of the cargo industry. Why aren't there regulations on tracking individual containers, providing mechanisms for fast sinking, emergency lighting, etc.?

Is there a commercial product available to cruisers for looking ahead for submerged obstructions? My googling indicated one IR LIDAR device that seemed to be the ticket, but I don't find anyone selling it for the commercial market. Anyone have any experience with this?

[EarlWer]

https://boatwatch.org/news/finnish-c...tlantic-ocean/

Not this one:
https://www.sail-world.com/Australia...-rescued/76289

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Having safety equipment does not make one safe. Knowledge makes one safe, and in some cases safety equipment can make one less safe.

I know that's the mantra. Which this incident sort of makes you question. Being clipped in when on watch alone, sitting out on the rails going 20 knots seem to be one of those incidences where clipping on seems to make sense. But of course it's your life your choice.

[fxykty]

Monos and cats behave very differently and in anything less than F8 conditions the cat motion is pretty relaxed (speed depending of course). With such a wide platform and distance to the edges there’s often no need for tethers. At night and solo watch keepers, and rougher conditions, makes sense. Other times in trade winds, not so much.

The UpSideUp system (and possibly others) can have integration with MOB AIS units so that not only do you get an audible alarm and location (as you do with most chart plotters) you also get sheet dump.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There was an anti-capsize system.


"Made by ACS, this monitors pitch and heel angle and is set to release the main and spinnaker sheet from a panel of cam cleats once certain settings are reached, and also set off an audible alarm. There is also a kill cord in the saloon. It’s a very simple system."

I’ve been corresponding with UpSideUp regarding their systems and what would be suitable for our purposes. One of the more advanced features (more cost, sigh) is having upwind/downwind context (via NMEA integration). This is useful to determine whether the automatic sheet release should trigger headsails only, mainsail only, or all sails. For example, reaching or going upwind, trigger all. But if broad reaching or running, only trigger headsails as releasing the main sheet makes the main fuller up top (more powerful) and could cause a pitch pole.

Without the context, based only on pitch and heel, the wrong sails may be released. Perhaps this contributed?

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by oscarkramer

I just received word that my brother-in-law, known French racer Regis Guillemot with 3 crewmembers, struck a partially submerged container and sank, with one crewmember lost. They were off La Coruna, Spain on the way to Martinique. The cat was a new (< 2years old) Marsaudon Composites 50' all-carbon cruising cat. They were likely sailing around 20 kts when they hit the container and pitch-poled. The details are sketchy still, but it sounds like one hull was severely compromised, while the other kept the boat from sinking immediately. The surviving crew made it into the life-raft and managed to send a signal. They were recovered 12 hours later by a cargo ship and taken to the Azores. This is the same boat, "Hallucine", that was first over the line in last year's ARC. Pics of the boat can be googled.

This is a horrible tragedy for all involved, and it has me wondering. Firstly, fast cruising cat sailors (including my bro-in-law) argue that there is safety in speed: being able to out-run the weather and minimizing time exposed to the elements. That made sense to me until this event. Now a slow aluminum hull sounds a lot more attractive.

Secondly, here is yet another story of a tragedy caused by the clear negligence of the cargo industry. Why aren't there regulations on tracking individual containers, providing mechanisms for fast sinking, emergency lighting, etc.?

Is there a commercial product available to cruisers for looking ahead for submerged obstructions? My googling indicated one IR LIDAR device that seemed to be the ticket, but I don't find anyone selling it for the commercial market. Anyone have any experience with this?

Thank you for the information from a reliable source, hopefully it will stop the unfounded speculation emerging, though probably not.

[fivecapes]

20 knots?

...not quite there but that's approaching IMOCA, ORMA levels.

Surely he's referring to wind speed?

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

20 knots?

...not quite there but that's approaching IMOCA, ORMA levels.

Surely he's referring to wind speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5aO...dictiveSailing

TS5 with what looks like 2 reefs sailing at 25 knots.

[yvest]

The boat got washed on shore, pics in below artcile :
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...BdAqzPyunP89Yk



Really strange, the hulls do not seem to have major damages

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by yvest

The boat got washed on shore, pics in below artcile :
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...BdAqzPyunP89Yk



Really strange, the hulls do not seem to have major damages

Fixable? Deck, internals and rig are gone, but hulls still look ok....

N