Orcas appear to have sunk a sailboat- what now?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by SailingInfidels

I am afraid I don't understand how you can finish an otherwise reasonable comment with this.

Time to call a halt? Whenever one species threatens another? You lost me right there.

And no, I am sorry but, whether it's the norm or not, humans do not have the responsibility (or the right) to be the global police for the natural web of life. We seem to think we need to "manage" wildlife, resources, the environment. I disagree. What we need to do is manage our own activity with regard to how that activity affects wildlife, resources, and the environment.

Sorry, SailingInfidels, I stand by my comment even if it wasn't quite correctly articulated. I don't mean police the whole natural world.

When one species (Orcas) start to threaten another species (Humans) it IS time to call a halt to it. How, I am not sure. What to we do if a tiger starts eating people in a village in India? Or a Bear starts attacking people in the American West? One way or another we humans will protect ourselves and our property.

Damaging a boat is bad, sinking one is worse. Expecting humans to avoid the whole Iberian Peninsula seems outrageous to me. I don't think that Orcas own that section of the ocean, maybe you do.

Protect Orcas and other marine mammals? yes. Share the ocean? yes. Turn the other cheek when they sink a boat and jeopardize the crew? I don't think so.

I said we (as ourselves reasoning beings) need to monitor the situation with Orcas and humans, and if it gets out of hand deal with it responsibly. I don't agree that have to simply concede that stretch of ocean to the Orcas. That sounds like appeasement, ("If we just let them have Portugal and Spain they won't bother us further").

[OS2Dude]

This should do the trick:

Indian Love Call

It worked on the Martians.

[ccanupii]

Or, now this may seem like a radical idea, but stop getting so close to whales, or marine life. Everytime a boat is smashed by a whale or someone is injured it is always the animals fault. How about we stop being stupid and sailing our boats into pods of hunting orcas. You get in there way, you get smacked. Would you drive you 84 toyota tercel up to a rhino in Africa and start doing donuts only to complain that it rammed your car for no reason. You are entering THEIR, Orcas, hunting ground and are amazed they get pissed at you for scaring away the food source they are hunting. Just stay away from them and stop thinking it is your right to go wherever you want.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

Or, now this may seem like a radical idea, but stop getting so close to whales, or marine life. Everytime a boat is smashed by a whale or someone is injured it is always the animals fault. How about we stop being stupid and sailing our boats into pods of hunting orcas. You get in there way, you get smacked. Would you drive you 84 toyota tercel up to a rhino in Africa and start doing donuts only to complain that it rammed your car for no reason. You are entering THEIR, Orcas, hunting ground and are amazed they get pissed at you for scaring away the food source they are hunting. Just stay away from them and stop thinking it is your right to go wherever you want.

Sorry, but this is laughable.

How do you know we're they are, kind of necessary to get out of their way.
That's we're the Rhino analogy is clearly fundamentaly flawed. You can see the Rhino's, you don't see the Orca most of the time.

Some sort of Sat tracker/Orca AIS would be great, but that won't happen due to the kill'em fraction which would use this to hunt them down.

You can not close the whole Atlantic coastline from Nantes to Morocco for any small boat traffic.

I am at the very moment right at Cape Finisterre in Spain.
I can tell you it's not fun to drive your boat through dense fog and worry on top if there are some torpedo like big animals targeting you.

I am all for avoiding cruel and permanent mitigation tactics, but we need to have some sort of deterrence available to small boat crew.

We did not use our depthsounder today until we reached our anchor spot. Maybe that is helpful, but I surely like to have something else up my sleave.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by limte

Several years ago in a remote area of Newfoundland, two orcas changed direction in order to approach our sailboat. One of them swam directly toward us, turned upside down, and swam underneath our boat, appearing again on the opposite side. I have no idea if there was any aggression expressed on the part of the orcas, or whether it was curiosity, or perhaps, and more likely, some "reason" that we cannot be privy to as humans. I dought whether anyone really knows why orcas act as they do, but as humans we seem to need to always find a tidy answer.

I have yet to see an Orca in these Newfoundland waters, but others have seen them here. Humpbacks can be scary when they breech, thats a whole lotta meat flying around and it is pretty hard to believe they check out the landing spot before launch. I feel honored to be able to see this behavior.

I don’t feel a need to explain whale behavior, I can’t begin to fathom HUMAN behavior. We recently sold our house in Philadelphia in part because if the very obvious increase in violence.

We have choices. We chose to leave the City because of the very real and increasing violence and because the city has no connection to nature. I choose to sail because I enjoy nature and feel safer among the critters.

Think about it, is it more dangerous to have some playful whales in rare occasion or to immerse yourself in a society of top level predators, many of whom have serious mental issues. Hell, just driving on a highway requires immense trust, a trust too commonly broken by drunks and maniacs.

Where is our sense of proportion?

And besides, we have steel boats with properly attached steel rudders. If they were to puncture a rudder, unlikely, they would get a mouthful of 10W30.

[ccanupii]

The problem is not that these animals are targeting small boats. Small boats are seeing the fins and driving towards them and getting to close. Because it is illegal to do so in many areas, they report how they were attacked without any reason, just out of the blue. If you see them, steer clear, if you can't, slow down or stop and let them pass. If you see a breaching whale, stay away. If the Orcas are truly targeting small fiberglass boats as a food source, then we are in trouble. Since the Great White Shark is an apex predator and Orcas hunt them, what are we to do. Show me a boater who says they got rammed for no reason by a whale or Orca and you would have shown me a boater who got to close and knew it.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

The problem is not that these animals are targeting small boats. Small boats are seeing the fins and driving towards them and getting to close. Because it is illegal to do so in many areas, they report how they were attacked without any reason, just out of the blue. If you see them, steer clear, if you can't, slow down or stop and let them pass. If you see a breaching whale, stay away. If the Orcas are truly targeting small fiberglass boats as a food source, then we are in trouble. Since the Great White Shark is an apex predator and Orcas hunt them, what are we to do. Show me a boater who says they got rammed for no reason by a whale or Orca and you would have shown me a boater who got to close and knew it.

I bet you a lot of folks over here would love to simply stay out of their way.

If there would be a way to do so most boaters would do so gladly in return of not having to worry about this.
Staying out of the way can not mean you pass non-stop 50miles offshore from Nantes to Morroco.
That's simply irrealistic. It can be done but for most it's not what cruising is about.

Whale watching is another thing. Responsible operators will not harass the animals if they want to stay in business.

[gar37bic]

From my casual observation of pods around the world, there appear to be big cultural differences between pods/families. Some of them are quite human- and even other species-friendly, some of them seem to be more like street gangs.

[glenvk]

Originally Posted by dr.j.levy

Opening up a discussion about new level of serious risk as reported in this link. The official line is that this species of Orcas are protected and if an interaction occurs, do nothing. There have been many interactions with serious damage, this is the first report of sinking.

https://www.portugalresident.com/fiv...f-sines-coast/

We were sailing, actually motoring through the doldrums a few days out from Panama on the way to the Galapagos. I had read Dougal Roberts “Survive the Savage Sea” years previously and so the thought of Killer Wales was on my mind. I had the boat on autopilot and was keeping a lookout. It was dusk. In this area where the north and south Pacific currents are thrust up against each other you get vertical currents that cause the water to ripple forming triangular ripples. I noticed an odd-looking triangular wave that didn’t disappear. We were motoring at about 4 knots and gaining on the triangular shape. As we got closer, I noticed there were a few others and realised it was a pod of Killer Whales. They were moving very slowly in the same direction as us. Eventually we were close enough that I could see two medium size whales supporting a baby whale between them. Helping it swim and keeping it near the surface. I started to think that if they didn’t change direction that we would run over them. It sounds stupid, I guess it took me a little bit to get my wits. I took the autopilot off and turned 90 degrees to port, basically heading toward the Ecuadorian coast. As I did this, I noticed the largest of the whales break away from the pack and circle around and head toward us from the starboard side. I had not wanted to scare my wife, but given the circumstances thought I had to tell her. She came out on the back deck and saw the whale coming toward us. I told her to get some of the best high energy food and put it in a suitcase which she started doing. The whale swam about 50 to 100 meters to the starboard side on the same course as us. After about 15 minutes it left. It then got dark. I continued heading for the Ecuadorian coast for about another hour before changing coarse to once again head toward the Galapagos. I wondered what might have happened if we came across the whales an hour later when it was dark, and I could not have seen them? I am pretty sure that the big whale would have charged and hit us. Probably the whales were swimming in the same direction as us thinking we were chasing them. They could not go very fast because they had a newborn. I wondered if that is why the whales struck and sank Dougal Roberts boat? His boat was sunk at night-time, and they did not see the whale until after it had struck. From memory Dougal wrote that the whale had a lot of blood coming from its head where it rammed their boat.
I really do think this could be a reason why whales would charge a boat and sink it. I know the whales off Portugal are a little different. I have seen videos of them attacking a boat. But maybe they started by feeling threatened? Anyway, probably not all attacks have the same circumstances. But, a pod with a vulnerable newborn will definitely take action if they feel threatened by a yacht bearing down on them.

[JPA Cate]

@ccanupii,

I don't know if you've ever sailed in areas with whales. What you write sounds like what legislators write, and it is true that unless regulated, the tourist boats do approach whales very closely.

However, sailors, for the most part, don't approach whales intentionally, because they are massier than we, and we know we don't understand their "reasoning." We watch in awe as the mother whale stands off and the juvenile (still bigger than our boat) swims circles around us, and dives underneath on its side, looking at the boat as it goes under and comes back up.

The laws say for us to avoid them. Good sense says to avoid them. Yet, we are almost powerless when they approach us. And the laws take no account of that fact.

I said almost powerless to avoid them, because in the case of the pod of orcas involved off Gibraltar, they approach, but the reversing maneuver has been shown -- more than just once -- to discourage the attack.

And every sailboat going into that area should be aware, and could reverse when they see the orcas approaching. It could save them thousands, and maybe their lives, no sensible reason to not try it. It is a peaceful means to an end.

Ann

[ccanupii]

Let's be realistic here, it is not tourist boats as the sole problem. On my Navionics chars it shows that the area I wanted travel on the Atlantic Ocean as a caution area, Wright whale feeding ground. An internet search showed this to be peak time for increased whale activity, so I took the inland route and avoided the area. After months of travel along the Eastern seaboard, pleasure craft are increasing in numbers and the rules and laws are out the window. Boats passing so close to me they literally reached out and touched the side of my boat. Anchoring in the channel to fish and refusing to move even though they are violating several laws. There are alot of idiots out there and they go chasing after the tour boats and get to close. These are highly intelligent animals and I am sure it only takes one or two times of people so close they can look them in the eye before they see all small boats as a threat. What would you do if every time you took your infant child outside a stranger in a green jacket ran towards you looking like they were going to harm your child. Word would spread and the next time you saw a stranger in a green jacket you would react. These Orcas learn and communicate amoung different pods across the oceans. There are studies proving this and we would be wise to educate ourselves. Are you or anyone here the problem,hopefully not, but we all have seen how stupid some people cam be and the rest of us are going to pay the price for it. I want to look and the pretty animals and see them as well but they are not here to entertain us, they will not come when you call them and if you threaten them, they will fight back. I am not saying it is easy to avoid them, but when you people talking about going out and chasing whales you should speak up. I have had my close calls with wildlife but knowing what to look for and what to do will make it safer. If you are going to run your boat up on a pod of Orcas, then get a stick and into the Congo and smack an infant silver back gorilla. I know breaching whales look like, I know how dolphins like to play on your wakes and I know what a hunting pod of Orcas look like, especially through binoculars. Keep a watch, minimize the risk. You may have a boat, but you are driving it through their home. If you don't know how to be a safe responsible boater to other boaters, then you are not going to be that way with wild life. Argue all you want, bit if you run up too close to a pod of Orcas and get your boat sunk, own up to it and stop whining about someone should do something. My God, it should be common sense and I can not even fathom while people are responding and messaging me about how I am wrong. I don't care what your skewed belief is. If you want to play victim great, but stop demanding something be dome for the situation you are creating. Every story, " I was minding my own business not doing anything wrong, then all of the sudden....blah blah cry cry". You got to close and got put in your place. You saw the signs of Orcas in the water, but your Autopilot was taking in the same direction, then you could see they were supporting a baby, THEN after a few minutes you changed course!!???!! Seriously, you are surprised the big Orca followed you away from the new born? This is just as bad as the people who get out of their car to see how close they can get to a 3000 pound Buffalo and her baby and then demand something be done because they were attacked.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

Let's be realistic here, it is not tourist boats as the sole problem. On my Navionics chars it shows that the area I wanted travel on the Atlantic Ocean as a caution area, Wright whale feeding ground. An internet search showed this to be peak time for increased whale activity, so I took the inland route and avoided the area. After months of travel along the Eastern seaboard, pleasure craft are increasing in numbers and the rules and laws are out the window. Boats passing so close to me they literally reached out and touched the side of my boat. Anchoring in the channel to fish and refusing to move even though they are violating several laws. There are alot of idiots out there and they go chasing after the tour boats and get to close. These are highly intelligent animals and I am sure it only takes one or two times of people so close they can look them in the eye before they see all small boats as a threat. What would you do if every time you took your infant child outside a stranger in a green jacket ran towards you looking like they were going to harm your child. Word would spread and the next time you saw a stranger in a green jacket you would react. These Orcas learn and communicate amoung different pods across the oceans. There are studies proving this and we would be wise to educate ourselves. Are you or anyone here the problem,hopefully not, but we all have seen how stupid some people cam be and the rest of us are going to pay the price for it. I want to look and the pretty animals and see them as well but they are not here to entertain us, they will not come when you call them and if you threaten them, they will fight back. I am not saying it is easy to avoid them, but when you people talking about going out and chasing whales you should speak up. I have had my close calls with wildlife but knowing what to look for and what to do will make it safer. If you are going to run your boat up on a pod of Orcas, then get a stick and into the Congo and smack an infant silver back gorilla. I know breaching whales look like, I know how dolphins like to play on your wakes and I know what a hunting pod of Orcas look like, especially through binoculars. Keep a watch, minimize the risk. You may have a boat, but you are driving it through their home. If you don't know how to be a safe responsible boater to other boaters, then you are not going to be that way with wild life. Argue all you want, bit if you run up too close to a pod of Orcas and get your boat sunk, own up to it and stop whining about someone should do something. My God, it should be common sense and I can not even fathom while people are responding and messaging me about how I am wrong. I don't care what your skewed belief is. If you want to play victim great, but stop demanding something be dome for the situation you are creating. Every story, " I was minding my own business not doing anything wrong, then all of the sudden....blah blah cry cry". You got to close and got put in your place. You saw the signs of Orcas in the water, but your Autopilot was taking in the same direction, then you could see they were supporting a baby, THEN after a few minutes you changed course!!???!! Seriously, you are surprised the big Orca followed you away from the new born? This is just as bad as the people who get out of their car to see how close they can get to a 3000 pound Buffalo and her baby and then demand something be done because they were attacked.

Pretty sure they made a TV show out of this idea.
Stupid Human Tricks!
BYD

[Redreuben]

Mariah Carey ?

[hpeer]

I think it silly to say “Orcas sank a boat” because it implies intent.

The orcas played with a boat. Roughly. Likely because of their genetic programming to attack whales as a food source. To draw a crude but familiar analogy, like a dog humping a leg. It is instinctual.

They did not know, or care, that the boat was fragile.

If one is to assign blame, something I do not want to do, it would make more sense to “blame” the skipper for taking a fragile boat into that situation. Skippers defense would be that this is a new behavior not easily predicted, true enough.

But now we know the danger. Boats with spade rudders are susceptible to damage from orcas in this area. Act accordingly.

[glenvk]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

Let's be realistic here, it is not tourist boats as the sole problem. On my Navionics chars it shows that the area I wanted travel on the Atlantic Ocean as a caution area, Wright whale feeding ground. An internet search showed this to be peak time for increased whale activity, so I took the inland route and avoided the area. After months of travel along the Eastern seaboard, pleasure craft are increasing in numbers and the rules and laws are out the window. Boats passing so close to me they literally reached out and touched the side of my boat. Anchoring in the channel to fish and refusing to move even though they are violating several laws. There are alot of idiots out there and they go chasing after the tour boats and get to close. These are highly intelligent animals and I am sure it only takes one or two times of people so close they can look them in the eye before they see all small boats as a threat. What would you do if every time you took your infant child outside a stranger in a green jacket ran towards you looking like they were going to harm your child. Word would spread and the next time you saw a stranger in a green jacket you would react. These Orcas learn and communicate amoung different pods across the oceans. There are studies proving this and we would be wise to educate ourselves. Are you or anyone here the problem,hopefully not, but we all have seen how stupid some people cam be and the rest of us are going to pay the price for it. I want to look and the pretty animals and see them as well but they are not here to entertain us, they will not come when you call them and if you threaten them, they will fight back. I am not saying it is easy to avoid them, but when you people talking about going out and chasing whales you should speak up. I have had my close calls with wildlife but knowing what to look for and what to do will make it safer. If you are going to run your boat up on a pod of Orcas, then get a stick and into the Congo and smack an infant silver back gorilla. I know breaching whales look like, I know how dolphins like to play on your wakes and I know what a hunting pod of Orcas look like, especially through binoculars. Keep a watch, minimize the risk. You may have a boat, but you are driving it through their home. If you don't know how to be a safe responsible boater to other boaters, then you are not going to be that way with wild life. Argue all you want, bit if you run up too close to a pod of Orcas and get your boat sunk, own up to it and stop whining about someone should do something. My God, it should be common sense and I can not even fathom while people are responding and messaging me about how I am wrong. I don't care what your skewed belief is. If you want to play victim great, but stop demanding something be dome for the situation you are creating. Every story, " I was minding my own business not doing anything wrong, then all of the sudden....blah blah cry cry". You got to close and got put in your place. You saw the signs of Orcas in the water, but your Autopilot was taking in the same direction, then you could see they were supporting a baby, THEN after a few minutes you changed course!!???!! Seriously, you are surprised the big Orca followed you away from the new born? This is just as bad as the people who get out of their car to see how close they can get to a 3000 pound Buffalo and her baby and then demand something be done because they were attacked.

Not only did Dougal Robertson own up to being sunk by killer whales. He wrote a book about it. You can buy it here:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Survive-Sa.../dp/0924486732

I could be wrong, but I don't think your gorilla and buffalo analogies would have saved him and his family from their ordeal. (Though no doubt if you had been there, you would have saved the day! Hahahahaa)

As for your passing judgement on our encounter with killer whales in the doldrums at dusk, you were not there and from your pompous attitude I doubt you have crossed any oceans on a yacht. I can tell you that the orcas were not following a straight line, they were moving to port and starboard. It was only when we were about 200 meters off that I could tell that we were going to pass too close for comfort. That was also when I realised that there was a newborn. Once I realized these things, I took aversive action. We were very lucky that at the time I was looking so hard. I could just have easily ducked in to get a snack, or 30 minutes later and it would have been too dark to see them.

Now, back to your armchair "ccanupii" to imagine yourself conquering another adventure.