floatsam/semi submerged debris?

[boatman61]

From the looks of those they'd show up by eye.. providing someone was keeping watch

[TreblePlink]

I fear them at night with a dull moon. Something unidentified at 12 o'clock a few miles out on radar would get my attention.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Every once in awhile people ask if I’ve ever seen any containers floating out there. Here’s an article with pictures that I took several years back on a trip from the AVI to the Chesapeake Bay.

A legendary offshore danger - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2013

I wonder if that commenter at the end is talking about water-activated AIS beacons?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by AA3JY

Every once in awhile people ask if I’ve ever seen any containers floating out there. Here’s an article with pictures that I took several years back on a trip from the AVI to the Chesapeake Bay.

A legendary offshore danger - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2013

Interesting article. Certainly helps with understanding how small the actual risk is -- even though that's not going to mean much to the one unlucky mariner.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Interesting article. Certainly helps with understanding how small the actual risk is -- even though that's not going to mean much to the one unlucky mariner.

Years ago, before GPS I may have agreed, but now with passage routes narrowed down to very efficient lanes, the odds have increased.
Each to their own, but I will always post a dedicated lookout when underway at night.
You only have to be unlucky once.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks Ann for bringing a senior perspective to maintaining a lookout

We both have sailed pre-GPS and before yacht radar so we developed a lookout discipline that was far more demanding of the watch keeper.

Watching for dark holes, irregular wave shape on a starry night gave you a chance to dodge whatever caused it, and those sleeping down below sleep better knowing you were paying attention.

If the moon was fairly full on a clear night, you could see actually well and if the rising or falling moon happened to be close to your course, you altered at night to follow that wonderful moonbeam for a while.

I never ever heard the mindset, "Well, you won't see everything, so why bother?"....
That actually scares me!

As to Radar at 0.25nm range, manually tuned to pick up a lightly speckled Sea Clutter, I have caught a surprisingly large number of real targets of logs and tiny unlit fish agregation devices and often a tide line wirh concentrated debris can be determined by a change in the sea clutter pattern

Of course, I am talking a minimum of 4 crew on 2 person night watches of 4 hr shifts from 8pm to 6am , with one hour watch as protected night vision lookout, before switching with partner....and a new set of eyes/partner on watch every 2 hours.

6 crew is a perfect number for long multi day passages, if you can find and accommodate them

Obviously much tougher to do with two crew at night, but to resort to not even trying, reading kindle instead, smacks of a faith in a God...I just don't have.

WE double-hand and while we certainly don't have the experience of the Cate (hat's off to you and jim ann), we have been around a bit and made some ocean crossings.

We do 4 hour watches and we do not read or do anything else but keep watch. We also do 360 degree scans. Many (including some here on CF) think we're a bit looney for doing it - but this keeps us happy. We also reef down at night so the person on watch is not faced with a sudden knock-down due to a squall.

Not often we've had people with us on long passages - but if they are standing a watch alone - they are told their job is to stand watch - not read or knit or whatever else they can think of.

Like others - standing orders on our boat are to call the either me or my wife anytime day or night if there is something they don't like the looks of

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

After 10 years full time cruising our incidence in boats we know or were within 50 nm of at the time of the incident:

Hitting large object and sinking......1
Hitting whale ......2
Lost rudder ......3
Lost mast ......4
Hit reef and sank ......5
Robbed at gun or knife point ......5

Statistically you need to worry more about looking for reefs than half sunken containers.

Wow, that seems alot. I've been actively cruising a similar amount of time as you and haven't been around that many hitting things or knife point robberies.

[danielamartindm]

Unfortunately, objects, vision, and conditions sometimes conspire to make collision with objects almost inevitable over many sea miles- even during the day with an adequate watch. When visibility drops, so should your speed, and you can stack the deck a bit by not traveling at night, slowing considerably if you do, and appointing a dedicated night watch person. Don't let this be a dissuading issue; it's mostly "little boat, big ocean."

[TJ D]

Statistically meaningless, but my previous boat (steel) had a big dent in the bottom and a bend on the leading edge of the keel from a container. You could see where the corner of the container drove up into the hull plating.

That impact happened at about 6 knots, stopped the boat and sent everyone flying, but 6mm plate did keep her from sinking. I shudder to think how quickly a glass boat would have sunk with the same impact with the corner of one of these.

[OldManMirage]

Just for what it's worth....

I bought my boat, a Cape Dory 28, not just because it fit my needs but also because during the sea trials the shifter managed to stick itself in "forward" as we were coming back into the slip. The PO somewhat panicked trying to get the boat in reverse and slowed down. He ended up increasing our speed to 4-5 knots. I was standing on the bow to handle lines. The first obstacle we hit was one of the wooden pilings at the back of the slip.

Now, this was an older marina on Florida's east coast. The piling was probably 20 years old. But as we hit it with the bowsprit I felt absolutely no give in the boat at all. We simply kept moving and just pushed it aside. This deflected us towards the seawall and a wooden dock that ran along it. I thought "This should be interesting !" But again, as we hit the dock the boat simply started trying to climb on top and go ashore. The bobstay hit first and split a 2x6 open and then the hull made contact and the momentum drove us up about 2 feet.

The only damage to the boat was a scuff mark ! I know CD's are built strong but this really gave me confidence. I guess if we were to strike a metal shipping container combined with some wave action there could be more significant damage but I feel pretty good about my chances. I'll be "out there" as soon as my plans allow !!!

[Moody Mike]

I have lost a boat to a a floating object at night & had to climb the side of an oil tanker. You wont see anything at night neither will your radar unless perhaps its dead calm. There lots of stuff floating out there but theres lots of water between it. We have only recently got over our night sailing phobia after 3 years of coastal day hopping. We are back into the swing of 24 hr sailing its amazing the distance we can cover. Just did Cairns to Fraser Island in 96 hrs with a 6 hr sleep at the Whitsundays on the way.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Seeker62

Just for what it's worth....

I bought my boat, a Cape Dory 28, not just because it fit my needs but also because during the sea trials the shifter managed to stick itself in "forward" as we were coming back into the slip. The PO somewhat panicked trying to get the boat in reverse and slowed down. He ended up increasing our speed to 4-5 knots. I was standing on the bow to handle lines. The first obstacle we hit was one of the wooden pilings at the back of the slip.

Now, this was an older marina on Florida's east coast. The piling was probably 20 years old. But as we hit it with the bowsprit I felt absolutely no give in the boat at all. We simply kept moving and just pushed it aside. This deflected us towards the seawall and a wooden dock that ran along it. I thought "This should be interesting !" But again, as we hit the dock the boat simply started trying to climb on top and go ashore. The bobstay hit first and split a 2x6 open and then the hull made contact and the momentum drove us up about 2 feet.

The only damage to the boat was a scuff mark ! I know CD's are built strong but this really gave me confidence. I guess if we were to strike a metal shipping container combined with some wave action there could be more significant damage but I feel pretty good about my chances. I'll be "out there" as soon as my plans allow !!!

That's one way to convince a potential buyer of your boat's ruggedness!!

Per Brohall, who designed the Albin Vega, said it was built to withstand grounding on a rock at hull speed with only cosmetic damage. I have heard it can be done, but I'll stick to running aground on sandbars if possible.

[GTom]

Didn't read all the comments, anyone mentioned forward looking sonar? Radar is not much useful for stuff which is 90% submerged and most likely hit the boat below the waterline.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Obviously much tougher to do with two crew at night, but to resort to not even trying, reading kindle instead, smacks of a faith in a God...I just don't have.

Please take note I never said anything about a kindle at night.

At night we do sweep around as much as possible, however even looking at the radar destroys good night vision for quite some time.

Spotting a mostly submerged container isn’t easy or even possible. When sailing as a couple, imho, it’s far more prudent to keep fatigue at bay than to search endlessly for that which may not be seen. This isn’t a faith in god, this is called taking a calculated risk based on the assets available to you.

If one is too tired to spot the hole in the water or the night, what good does it do you to search endlessly for it?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

If one is too tired to spot the hole in the water or the night, what good does it do you to search endlessly for it?

Valid points and therein lies the delima and the dangerous mindset.