floatsam/semi submerged debris?

[ferrailleur]

Originally Posted by billknny

It really, really, really depends on the boat. During the sail back to California after the 2014 Pacific Cup two boats--that I know of--hit submerged objects. Both owned by people I knew. The story of one was well publicized at the time. A Corsair 37 was damaged beyond repair, and abandoned.

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

The other story was not picked up by the sailing press. A Dana 24 sailing as fast as a Dana 24 can go (5 knots?) came to a crashing stop after hitting what the singlehanded skipper described to me as a 6 foot diameter steel mooring buoy, barely awash. A Dana 24 bow shaped dent was left in the steel plate. The boat suffered some scratched paint, and finished her trip to San Francisco without incident. Quite likely she took at least 3 times as long as the Corsair was expected to take--but she arrived. In my most poetic moments, I can imagine they both hit the same object...

I am old fashioned. I like a boat with an uncored hull of solid fiberglass, (Aluminum or steel would be even better), with watertight bulkheads, a skeg hung rudder, and a long keel with more keel bolts than I can count with all my fingers and toes. Yes, I take a bit longer to get there. But I really don't much worry about encounters with either man-made or natural "stuff".

Thanks .... I like your "old fashioned" boat taste. I also like it slow and safe. What solid cruiser in the 30' to 40' range would you recommend?
Thanks..... Happy New Year!

[thinwater]

I've had two significant hits, both of which significantly damaged centerboards or rudders.

Day or night, no difference. Neither could possibly have been seen.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by ferrailleur

Thanks .... I like your "old fashioned" boat taste. I also like it slow and safe. What solid cruiser in the 30' to 40' range would you recommend?
Thanks..... Happy New Year!

There are so many! It's hard to know where to start, especially with no good idea of a budget.

When we first started looking for our current boat, my partner (smart girl!) asked me to make a list of the five boats I would most like to have if money was no object, and then we could go from there.

So here is my mid-30's passage making boat list, in no special order. I could easily add many more. Of necessity, these names are the most common, just because I think of them first.

Gozzard 36
Island Packet 38 or 36
Pacifc Seacraft 37
Halberg Rassy--any

You'll see lots of new and popular boats don't make my lists because they have cored hulls, spade rudders, or narrow keels.

[RaymondR]

Just finished a 4,000nm passage up the west coast, across the northern, and down the east coast of Australia. The biggest problem I encountered was whales on the west coast. At times I could see 3 or 4 of them all breaching at the same time and some of them appeared almost suicidal in the way they crossed over my bow.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Just finished a 4,000nm passage up the west coast, across the northern, and down the east coast of Australia. The biggest problem I encountered was whales on the west coast. At times I could see 3 or 4 of them all breaching at the same time and some of them appeared almost suicidal in the way they crossed over my bow.

Whales have been a problem for the Pacific Cup racers (San Francisco to Hawaii). In 2006, a few hundred miles north of Hawaii, a sperm whale rammed and sunk a 40-ft racer that was returning to the mainland. The crew made it into their liferaft and were quickly rescued. In 2008, at least two boats had whale encounters within a day of leaving San Francisco. One (a Cal 40) had some minor rudder damage but was able to finish the race. On VALIS, we sideswiped a surfacing humpback on the last day of our return passage. No damage to boat or whale, but it was an exciting encounter. Video of the encounter here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJt1ka7HHM

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

But isn't that the interesting point? We talking about hitting unseen objects at night, but how often are we sailing along and notice something barely floating that passes by. We usually don't see a thing until it's abeam or in our wake. And then it's too late.

.
I must admit, I am amazed when I watch those video blogs and see how poorly a lookout is kept in daylight
Reading books/kindle, fishing off the stern and no one keeping a lookout ahead for floating debris or worse!.

Not on my boat!

A dedicated lookout is rotated every half hour with one job in mind....don't hit anything!
If I find both watch team looking aft, they hear it from me [emoji35] !!

At night, if sea conditions permit a tuned radar at short range helps, but always someone is focussed on looking for color or sea state changes, with the remote dodge in their hands

I have a dutch built steel boat that is tough, but what is it with these virtual sailors who don't understand the meaning of a "proper lookout"!

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

.
I must admit, I am amazed when I watch those video blogs and see how poorly a lookout is kept in daylight
Reading books/kindle, fishing off the stern and no one keeping a lookout ahead for floating debris or worse!.

Not on my boat!

A dedicated lookout is rotated every half hour with one job in mind....don't hit anything!
If I find both watch team looking aft, they hear it from me [emoji35] !!

At night, if sea conditions permit a tuned radar at short range helps, but always someone is focussed on looking for color or sea state changes, with the remote dodge in their hands

I have a dutch built steel boat that is tough, but what is it with these virtual sailors who don't understand the meaning of a "proper lookout"!

It’s nice when you have a large enough crew and the space to accommodate them. Sailing as a couple on a 32’ boat......well, I’m keeping watch with a kindle because I’d lose my mind otherwise.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Stop worrying, you won’t see it in the middle of the night anyway

Ha, one of my jokes when passing some significant floating hazard in the day is..."gee, wonder what that looks like at night? (said with my hands over my eyes)". [emoji1]

Ive passed a number of obstructions at night and noticed them only when they were very close. Once, while racing on a Corsair F31 thru the oil patch, zoomed past an unlit large diameter pipe extending just a few feet above the surface ... caught its profile in the moon light just a few feet away as we zipped past it at 18 knots...that would have left a scratch! 😨

Hit an adrift nav buoy one night...made a hell of a racket as it careened down the side of the boat, but no significant damage...just a few scratches.

[boatman61]

I too reduce sail at night.. usually around last light.. its not because I'm worried about what may be in the water.. more what may be above it.. sudden high winds and shifts.
Why subject oneself to stumbling round half asleep over a pitching deck on a pitch black night trying to reef down as wind and spray batter you.. main gets 2 reefs and genny rolled in one third.. now everything can be controlled in the cockpit and heaving to just means flipping to the opposite tack and hauling on the mainsheet.
I'd rather lose at max 12-15 odd miles than slip or get knocked by a boom and injured or killed because I want to be able to say how fast I can cross the Biscay or Atlantic..
I'm a great believer in 'Slow and Steady'..

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

.
A dedicated lookout is rotated every half hour with one job in mind....don't hit anything!
If I find both watch team looking aft, they hear it from me [emoji35] !!

If I had a crew of 4 or 6 or 8 on board, what you suggest is a great way of managing it. What do you propose when the total number of bodies available for watchstanding equals TWO? Which is of course what the vast majority of cruising boat have to work with.

We set a timer for 8 minutes. When the timer goes off, it's time to do a horizon scan, radar range scan and and AIS evaluation.

It is not perfect. It's the best we know how to do.

[Cheechako]

My experience is you wont see it at sea likely anyway. In shore etc you often do, because in sight of land there's a lot to watch out for. But days at sea, constant wave action etc, make it hard to see things. It's a big ocean, the odds are low, but stuff is out there for sure. Let's face it, the Navy can't seem to see freighters in their close vicinity with multiple people "on watch"! :>)

[s/v Moondancer]

After 10 years full time cruising our incidence in boats we know or were within 50 nm of at the time of the incident:

Hitting large object and sinking......1
Hitting whale ......2
Lost rudder ......3
Lost mast ......4
Hit reef and sank ......5
Robbed at gun or knife point ......5

Statistically you need to worry more about looking for reefs than half sunken containers.

[hellosailor]

"Let's face it, the Navy can't seem to see freighters in their close vicinity with multiple people "on watch"! :>)"

Oy there! Be nice! It isn't the USN's fault that there are no eight minute timers built to USN purchasing standards. Those poor seaman have to make do with plain three minute egg timers, and then keep rotating them, and then counting the rotations...all very distracting stuff.

The gods love the low-hanging fruit. You do the best you can, but when you are just being plain carefless...doesn't matter why, they go for you first.

This is why some eastern europeans keep their toddlers on a harness and leash, literally. They can't understand how Westerners allow the kids to be out of sight, even for a minute. Westerners can't understand why the toddlers are treated like dogs and leashed.

[Pelagic]

I'm hearing a lot of rationalization about NOT LOOKING OUT FORWARD along your boat's courseline, but sorry, I just don't buy it

Sure, if you are only one person on watch, there will be other "duties" that distract you from looking forward all the time, but not a book or a video game.

Somehow, the mindset has changed from hand steering and steering around flotsam to autopilot and just trusting on luck.

My point is that it takes discipline to force yourself to be the best lookout you can be....that seems to have been forgotten!

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I'm hearing a lot of rationalization about NOT LOOKING OUT FORWARD along your boat's courseline, but sorry, I just don't buy it

Sure, if you are only one person on watch, there will be other "duties" that distract you from looking forward all the time, but not a book or a video game.

Somehow, the mindset has changed from hand steering and steering around flotsam to autopilot and just trusting on luck.

My point is that it takes discipline to force yourself to be the best lookout you can be....that seems to have been forgotten!

If you can possibly hand steer a boat and stare straight ahead hard enough to spot the floating beer barrel 1000 miles off shore in an empty ocean as a solo watch keeper for 12 hours a day every day and night for 14 days in a row, then, damn, you are a much better man than I ever will be. More power to you.

The rules on my boat for watchkeepers are a lot more realistic for normal humans:
No earphones...ever. Hearing a problem is as likely as seeing it.
Nothing at night that can possibly interfere with your night vision.
Always honor the timer, never skip a horizon/radar/AIS scan.
Look in front, look behind, look up at the rig, look down at the deck.Repeat
Follow the written watch orders.
Never skip the start/end watch checklists.
Call the Captain if there is ANY doubt.

For new crew, the last rule is the hardest to get them to go along with. They think they have failed in some way if they need to wake me. I try really hard to always pop out of bed with a smile and an honest, "Thanks for getting me up!"