East Coast of NC

[Ryan0akes]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

my $.02. Oriental is a great little town, but the sailing is better in Morehead/Beaufort.

Could you expand on this comment? I just posted a fairly long reply to all regarding my thoughts on the two areas but some clarity on what makes the more head/beaufort area better would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by Ryan0akes

2) Access to the Ocean to sail is super quick and seems very appealing.

I don't mean to sound harsh while asking, but have you done much ocean sailing, especially up around that area? I love cruising blue water but it can be a bear and I don't typically go for "day sails" outside just to go out.

You'll be timing tides, weather, and current. The ocean is no joke out there. Much easier to spend a day (or a weekend, or a whole week) just hopping out into the Neuse or Pamlico sound where you don't have as much to contend with to have an enjoyable sail.

You mentioned being able to go up Adam's creek to check out Oriental. I'd start up in Oriental and use Adam's creek to check out the ocean a few times and see if you really want that compared to sailing in the sound (which is no lake sailing to be sure.)

You can probably also make it out the passes through the outer banks but you need to get out there (preferably in a small motor vessel and follow some locals through to learn the lay of the sea.)

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Ryan0akes

1) swimming isn't great if advised at all
Swimming in Oriental is pretty much a no go. There is no beach and the shoreline is developed. Swimming off the boat is ok in good weather, but in summer there are a lot of sea nettles (stinging jellyfish). South River does tend to not have as many jellyfish, but no beaches. If you want beaches you are pretty much limited to the outer banks.



2) no kids there at the marinas (i have only been once and a 30ish year old sail loft repair guy told me he and his wife might be the only people under 50 there)
This is probably true of the marinas. Some of the locals have kids but it's mostly retirees.


3) not the most active town life (same concern as above).
There are about 3 bars and one brewery in town plus a few little shops. There's a pretty good local music scene as well.

4) destinations to sail for anchoring or town life?

There are plenty of destinations as I posted previously. What is not clear to me is how often you will be using the boat. Are you planning to move to where you keep the boat or will you be primarily a weekender with occasional one to two week cruises. Oriental is about three to four hours from Beaufort/Morehead depending on the tidal current in core creek. If you are not going to move there the Oriental area will save you lots of money compared to the coast.
5) water color and sea life? I imagine the kids seeing porpoises in the ocean would be killer. Not so much in the pamlico rt?
Definitely brown water, but there are plenty of porpoises in the lower Neuse and Pamlico sound.



6) I hear that due to the shallow water of the pamlico, the water can stand up just a fast or worse than the Ocean? I recently crossed from Swan Qtr to Ocracoke with a friend in a 19 ft boat and we experienced that exact scenario also.

This is true. The Pamlico can get very rough, but you don't have to go through an inlet in a rage. You do know what a rage is don't you? It's usually not a problem if you can wait for the tide to change and you don't have to be back to work on a schedule.



7) aren't there plenty of shoals in the pamlico to have to navigate also? There certainly were on our passage to Ocracoke.

If you think the shoal water around Ocracoke is bad, it is nothing compared to the inside waters near Beaufort/Morehead. If you draw more than three feet you are pretty much stuck in the ocean or dredged channels. Those shoals you didn't like at Ocracoke is all there is in Beaufort/Morehead on the inside.


1) Anchoring in the bight of Cape Lookout sounds amazing and the kids should love this. I camped there years ago and loved it. The water is blue and wildlife (horses and porpoises) are abundant.
Can't argue this one it's a great place


2) Access to the Ocean to sail is super quick and seems very appealing.

3)Beaufort and Morehead are both alive and well and would be great for my wife after a day of dragging her out to sea....or she could spend a day messing around town while I sail. ( I single hand as it is so I'm not too worried about lack of crew)

4) Oriental is a day away via Adams Creek, anchor and another day to Ocracoke right? Is it possible to get into Ocracoke with 5.5 feet draft from the inlet via the Atlantic? I have heard mixed answers here so far.

I've been through Ocracoke inlet twice. I draw 4 feet and at the tip of the island I had less than a foot of water under my keels. The pucker factor was pretty high. It was above mid tide both times, but not quite at high tide. I wanted to be able to float off if I went aground.


5) Sailing to Wrightsville or other destinations further South via the Ocean is a skip away.
Wrightsville is about 12 hours away in my 7 kt cat. A bit more than a skip in my experience. Georgetown is about 24 hours, Charleston is about 36 and St Mary's is about 54 give or take depending on the winds. The extra couple of hours it takes to get to the ocean from Oriental doesn't make much difference once you get past Wrightsville.


The downside to that area seems to be the lack of other Sailors. I'm not stoked on the big motor boat scene and the rudeness of some boaters that don't know or care about sailboats.

Also, I wasn't aware that the inlet was terribly difficult to navigate. More thoughts on the Beaufort/Morehead marinas and navigation are much appreciated.

The inlet is not that difficult to navigate, but any inlet can turn into a rage situation with wind opposing current. In the summer winds are usually pretty gentle and this is not a big problem. It's usually not a problem on a north wind but during the fall winter and spring the southerly winds in front of a cold front can last several days. On an outgoing tide with a south wind it can get pretty sporty at times. I've come back on a beautiful downwind sail and had waves standing up 10 to 12 feet and actually surfed the boat back through the inlet in the dark. The waves before getting into the inlet current were more like 4 to 6ft. We didn't break anything but as the saying goes good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement. The next time it was like that we went to Cape lookout and ran the inlet in the morning on an incoming tide. The point is that conditions in the ocean are not always going to be amenable to family outings, when sailing conditions in the Neuse would be just fine. This is especially true if you are on a tight schedule. Also do you know how you or your family is susceptible to sea sickness. The motion of the ocean tends to be harder on stomachs than the chop in the Neuse. That said I've had people get sea sick on my boat in the Pamlico, but never in the Neuse.


So what makes sailing the Pamlico or the Neuse better than the Giant Ocean next door? Forgive my naivety here; I am a new sailor. I do love the idea of just getting out sailing a single tack for a while and watching the land drop away. I also aspire to offshore sailing so the Ocean seems more apropos than the sound for that goal no?



The Neuse/Pamlico is a great training area for moving from lake sailing to the ocean. That "Giant Ocean" is no lake. It's something you do with more experienced people until you have enough experience of your own. If you are going to it on your own, it's something you work up to. You sound like you have the sailing basics down based on you lake experience. I would recommend that you sail the Neuse, then the Pamlico in good weather, then the Pamlico in marginal weather and the Ocean in good weather, then as you gain experience gradually go out in more challenging conditions. I've seen a number of peoples marriages fail because of one trip on a boat where the family got terrified and the wife said me and the kids are done. It's us or the boat. I think most sailors would not want to be in the position of having to make that choice.



You can definitely get out of sight of land in the Pamlico and depending on where you start you can get some pretty long tacks when going NE or SW. I appreciate what you aspire to do, but please work up to it. There's no natural law that says what goes out into the ocean has to come back.



Looking forward to hearing more on the topic! It has been so hard to get info on NC from just google searches and I don't know enough sailors to get info via word of mouth.

Thanks again for all your replies!

Hope this helps

[Ryan0akes]

Capt Bill,

Thanks for the insight. You answered so much here.

I had fully planned originally to do just as you suggested, Lake to Pam to Ocean Jaunts, to Ocean sailing. Seems like the obvious path.

The only thing pushing me really to skip the Pam was the swimming waters, beach access and land life between sails.

But really it is about the sailing too, so what a challenge. It sounds like Oriental might be the best avenue still when taking all factors in. The major challenge being that the kids want to swim from the moment we leave dock.

Is Ocracoke the best option if I want to sail to a destination rather than motor down the creek?

As for duration, Yes we plan for it to be for extended weekends and occasional week or so outings. Definitely not moving down there so the slip fees are a consideration also and from what I'm seeing, way more affordable in Oriental.

The reason I posted this question was to get to some beta on sailing around the area. I just can't find much info on sailing the Coastal region of NC. Seems kinda the domain of the fishermen and the sailors don't seem to be writing about it.

Whether I end up in Oriental or Beaufort, I'm still curious about the sailing around Beaufort. Is it purely Ocean then?

And from Oriental, where are some great destinations? Ocracoke is obvious. Can one sail to Washington, or do you have to motor? How long is it to get to Cape Lookout?

Finally, will I still have navigation challenges with the Inlet going to the Bight? That just seems like an incredible destination for everyone on the boat, Captain included.

[Ryan0akes]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

If you like towns you can go up to New Bern, Washington, Ocrakoke, Belhaven, Manteo, Swan Quarter, and Hatteras. If you like to get out in the boondocks, there's South River, the Bay River, Pungo River, West Bay, Turnagain bay and quite frankly too many little side creeks and anchorages to list. There's a reason that Oriental is called the sailing capital of NC.

Regarding these locations Bill, I didn't realize Hatteras was an option. The few times I've been to Hatteras, Buxton & Avon, I couldn't find a single sailboat. I figured the water was just too shallow. Is there anchorage in the area? Transient docks? Mooring?

Is there anchorage on Portsmouth or Cedar Island?

While towns are killer for my wife and me, the kids want to swim.

[Ryan0akes]

One final thought/question here.....

Experience aside, which area makes for better sailing, the Sound or the Ocean?

Forget access...just sailing.

[mjscottinnc]

Originally Posted by Ryan0akes

One final thought/question here.....

Experience aside, which area makes for better sailing, the Sound or the Ocean?

Forget access...just sailing.

It’s all about expectations, for pure sailing I like the ocean. Out far enough and running into things, like the bottom, isn’t a consideration. But it’s transit sailing… you’re on your way somewhere that’s days, weeks, or months away.

Day sailing or weekending the sounds and rivers are better, shorter distance to destinations. Lots of places to stop and visit. But your always aware of places you can’t sail, not enough water.

You can day sail in the ocean, but unless you are close to the inlet you might spend an hour or two just getting to open water.

[davil]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

It’s all about expectations, for pure sailing I like the ocean. Out far enough and running into things, like the bottom, isn’t a consideration. But it’s transit sailing… you’re on your way somewhere that’s days, weeks, or months away.

Day sailing or weekending the sounds and rivers are better, shorter distance to destinations. Lots of places to stop and visit. But your always aware of places you can’t sail, not enough water.

You can day sail in the ocean, but unless you are close to the inlet you might spend an hour or two just getting to open water.

==============================
now withstanding accurate Bill's description, believe mjscottinnc is right on the money.

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Ryan0akes

The reason I posted this question was to get to some beta on sailing around the area. I just can't find much info on sailing the Coastal region of NC. Seems kinda the domain of the fishermen and the sailors don't seem to be writing about it.

Before he died the area was the cruising domain of Claiborne Young. His "Cruising Guide to Coastal North Carolina" was the bible. Although it is now 15 years old, it is still more than useful.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Ryan0akes

I'm planning to move our 36 ft Catalina to the Coast from a lake and trying to decide on where to slip. I believe I've narrowed it down to, Morehead City, Beaufort and Oriental.

Suggestions?

Thanks!

I live in Beaufort and unless you are ready to buy a slip for about $80k. Look elsewhere. Morehead is very tight also. Oriental and New Bern are your best chance of renting a slip.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Mo Surprises

Slips are less expensive and more readily available in Oriental. Sailing is on brown water but no tides or currents. There is some racing going on and cruising groups. Ocracoke and Beaufort are less than a days sail away.

Morehead/Beaufort is more expensive and you have to endure the inlet to sail in the ocean and there really aren’t many other places to sail unless you enjoy dodging shoals. Tides and currents can effect your plans. But the ocean also offers clear water, fishing and the two great anchorages of Cape Lookout and behind Shackleford Island.

Oriental is the sailing capital of NC and if you’re a lake sailor I think it will be preferable to you. Quaint little town too!

Oriental has become the parking lot for sailboats. Virtually no racing any longer. You can sail the Neuse for a day sail and it is about 3 1/2 hours to Beaufort and the ocean. As to tides it isn’t as bad as some say. I often sail traditional boats and we just sail according to the tide or power a mile out to the ocean.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Bill,
Sounds like you know the area. I'm looking for a transient berth for say 6 months next year. I'd like a place that had a decent town near by, walking distance would be night. Need to stay aboard most of the time and will do some minor boat projects while there. Will have a car. 6.5ft draft mono. Any thoughts on a good location? New Bern?

New Bern is a good choice. I liv. In the area.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Happ

New Bern is a good choice. I liv. In the area.

New Bern in general, or are you referring to the Grand Marina downtown? Do you think this is a decent place for a transient multi month stop?

[RedneckRedcoat]

We are currently in Whittaker Point Marina. We are transients who sailed from
Southport , around the frying pan shoals and then up through Adams creek and core creek. Broc yard is a highly recommended yard if you can get in. They where very busy at the time we needed help. We ended up in oriental and got to say it’s a great town. You have two yards here , sailcraft and deatons. Sailcraft allow liverabords while working on your boat. They are really helpful and will work with you on what your trying to achieve. Whittaker point has a courtesy car for local use. They also don’t mine you working on your boat. The local piggly wiggly will also pick you up and drop you off at a marina of your choice. There is no real tide here but when the wind comes from the north the water rises by 1 - 2 feet. We have a 6.5 feet draft and can get in and out of Whitaker creek fairly easily. Just stick to the red markers. We see lots of sailboats sailing up and down the sound every day so I think it’s a good place to sail around and have easy access to the ocean (3 hours of Beaufort) if you want it.

[Captain Bill]

Sorry I said Hatteras for your boat. My cat only draws 4 feet and while Rollinson channel is doable in my boat it is a bit skinny for your boat. I just looked and saw the controlling depth from the Ferry channel to the Hatteras Marina is only 5.2 as well.



As for the comments on New Bern, from the OP's town life perspective it's much better than Oriental. There are some really good restaurants there. I kept my cat there for the first two years I owned it, at the Bridgepoint Marina. From A sailing perspective it sucked. Almost every time I wanted to go sailing I'd have to motor down to Minnisott Pt. before I got any wind. I'ld then have to motor back 2 hours after sailing up and down the Neuse in front of Oriental. One other thing to consider is that the New Bern Grand is in the Newbern City Limits and will hit you for City personal property tax as well as county. Taxes in Oriental are lower and if you get a Marina outside of the city limits the taxes are much lower. There are a couple of Marinas on Brown creek in Whortonsville that are inexpensive but a bit out in the sticks.