Is rain no longer potable?

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by StuM

At last a non-alarmist statement from the BBC

"They have been identified in low levels in rainwater globally - but if they infiltrate water or soil in high level, they can become a serious concern."

Yes. Just the facts. This is exciting news because perhaps in the future the amounts in rainwater will remain low. And in areas where amounts are high (drinking water and soil), and compromising health and the environment, there will be a way to reverse the damage done. Also be able to stop it entering the environment altogether.

Of course there's also this statement from the same article so not sure how long it would take for recovery from what's already out there.

The team of scientists hope that with further research PFAS could be filtered from drinking water and this new method applied to destroy the contaminants.

However, treatment of high concentrations of PFAS is only one part of the solution.

With PFAS remaining in production it can continue to build up at low levels in fish and other wildlife as it cannot be broken down naturally very easily.

Dr Alexander-White says that PFAS should only be used in products and processes that are vital for society and for which there is no alternative.

This new method was applied to the 10 most prominent types of PFAS, but the US Environment Protection Agency has identified more than 12,000.

William Dichtel, one of the co-authors and professor of chemistry at Northwestern remains hopeful: "There are other classes that don't have the same Achilles' heel, but each one will have its own weakness."

[thesaltytar]

Gadagirl, thank you for posting! That is indeed good news. As always it is good to know there are (so many) people smarter than I am solving the world's problems!

[akopac]

Forever chemicals are in woman makeup too.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The one that is going to get you in the long term is heavy metals from coal powered fire stations. China and the US together put about 300 tons of mercury alone into the atmosphere every year. Add in the cadmium and other heavy metals including lead and your intellect is doomed.

That's why we need more offshore windfarms

Best solution to the polluted rainwater issue is more desalination plants.

That is a win-win as it would also solve the rising sea level issue.

[goboatingnow]

Yes, people are generally living longer, and this is true around the world. Living longer doesn't equate to living healthier or better lives. In the US approx. 1 out of 10 Americans are taking an anti-depressant and the number is increasing yearly. The number of suicides in the US has increased by 30% from 2000 to 2020. The number of people on opioids has also doubled during that period as has the number of overdose deaths. If you haven't been to a long-term nursing care facility in the US in the past 5 years, then you really have no clue about the quality of life (or lack thereof) facing many Americans who may eventually become dependent on government backed health care/long term care facilities.

I’ve lived in the US, let’s not go down this rabbit hole. The US fit the money spend has terrible overall health outcomes where large swathes of society have little or no access to proper healthcare

In fact that and third world levels of poverty that shocked this young naive European when I moved there contribute to mortality and morbidity issues not seen elsewhere.

So let’s park that one.

Cleaning up our act from plastics pollution is a given , cleaning up our groundwater is a given , generally improving our environment is a given, responding to the climate change crisis is a given.

We need to act on this and incentivise and punish as needed to get the tasks done.

Whether in the meantime you want to roll around in the dirt , fire away ( I spent my whole childhood years from age 11 working on farms , I’ve rolled in more dirt then you’ve had hot dinners [emoji5]

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by StuM

How the heck do they even measure that?

If you're asking seriously, not all that difficult with today's technology. One common technique involves concentrating the sample so the contaminants are present at higher levels thus more easily detected.

I used to work for a company that regularly tested their products for certain contaminants to the low ppb level with equipment and techniques that aren't all that expensive nor sophisticated and in fact are used in many moderately sophisticated chemical labs.

Spend a little more money, set up a fancier lab and more expensive equipment and testing to ppt isn't that difficult. Several companies sell off the shelf equipment that will measure into the low ppt levels. Have no experience with sub ppt but obviously the technology is out there.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

That's why we need more offshore windfarms

Best solution to the polluted rainwater issue is more desalination plants.

That is a win-win as it would also solve the rising sea level issue.

As a short term benefit, the oceans would not rise because everyone's bladders are full...

[Lepke]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I never grew up like this..in my youth, bread came from the bakery..meat from the butcher....milk from the dairy...etc....

We live in a packaged world...seriously packaged......and it's mostly done in the name of "convenience".

Seems like we want everything sanitized, filtered or otherwise packaged in plastic.

A recent visit to my Dr. was much the same. These days there is a "pill" for everything. It's a multi-billion dollar a year industry.

You must be old like me to remember separate bakeries, butchers, etc.
I have a wood stove mostly for the packaging that comes with food.
Primary care doctors today are pill pushers. And they seem to follow the first rule of medicine - a patient cured is a customer lost.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

For those few of us who drink more water than beer, ...

More water than beer?
Heretics, unworthy.
"Beer is proof that God loves us"
Ben Franklin.

[El Pinguino]

Here in the south eastern corner of Australia I don't worry about polluted rain water - seeing it comes in off the Southern Ocean.
Run off is a different matter in southern Chile - Giardia is a constant risk - do bears **** in the woods ? Dunno but beavers do.

Meanwhile - whatever happened to Acid Rain? - that used to be a headline grabber.

[thesaltytar]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Meanwhile - whatever happened to Acid Rain? - that used to be a headline grabber.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/07/09...9%20and%202019.

A 93% reduction in sulfur dioxide on account of industrial exhaust scrubbers, vehicle catalytic converters, and other changes brought about by amendments to the Clean Air Act.

Rain on the east coast US still is acidic but is showing continued and marked signs of recovery.

Not unlike the ozone hole and the flurry of activity to stop chlorinated fluorocarbons (CFCs) it seems through some measures of international goodwill, with also I'm sure no small part market pressures, have encouraged us to go in the right direction and undo most of our damage.

Hopefully PFOAs will join the above examples as a footnote in history of how we can muck something up but get it right in the end.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

That's why we need more offshore windfarms

Best solution to the polluted rainwater issue is more desalination plants.

That is a win-win as it would also solve the rising sea level issue.

The economics of desal from nuclear is miles ahead of desal from wind and if you price the water output at similar prices as from hydrological cycle and storage you can almost give the electricity away for nothing in a country like Australia with extensive irrigated agriculture.

It does not matter where on earth you live, the way the atmosphere works is that sooner or later any nasties pumped into it end up almost everywhere, the only real differences are the concentrations.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The economics of desal from nuclear is miles ahead of desal from wind and if you price the water output at similar prices as from hydrological cycle and storage you can almost give the electricity away for nothing in a country like Australia with extensive irrigated agriculture.

It does not matter where on earth you live, the way the atmosphere works is that sooner or later any nasties pumped into it end up almost everywhere, the only real differences are the concentrations.

So there is a possibility that the rain on the west coast of Tasmania or in Patagonia has fewer pollutants in it than the rain down wind from a chinese steel mill or maybe even than in Sydney?

Oh OK

I can live with the southern levels.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

More water than beer?
Heretics, unworthy.
"Beer is proof that God loves us"
Ben Franklin.

Ahhh, but does the brewery filter the water to remove toxins?

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

So there is a possibility that the rain on the west coast of Tasmania or in Patagonia has fewer pollutants in it than the rain down wind from a chinese steel mill or maybe even than in Sydney?

Oh OK

I can live with the southern levels.

For now probably. But it builds up in the environment and in your blood steam and tissues and organs, as well in plants and animals that you eat. So fine for now. But 5-10 years?
Same as plastics, once the world oceans are polluted with, almost impossible to remove from the environment. In the future, as now, we'll be in a mitigation race to save not only our species but all species on earth. We depend on a very specific and delicately balanced ecological system for our survival.