Repair/replace or get rid of generator

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Ayb

Correct, no backup for the engine charging right now. I'll do some reading about small gas generators, I want to redesign our deck storage anyhow and I can probably make a spot for one on the port side and it'll be an easy run to the shore power recepticale.

Hey welcome to the Forum.
Pousbou would be Liberty Bay, nice part of the Sound.
We're down in Olympia ourselves.

The smaller Portable generators are great depending on the Model.
We use the Honda 1000i, it's very quiet and gives enough to power up our banks in couple hrs.
They sip fuel as well.
Everyone's use varies.
We suspend our portable on a extra halyard sitting on a simple platform and bungees to secure everything. Keeps the vibration to zero, and even cancels some noise being raised a bit.
That and some good battery banks and panels, a wind generator,
It all applies here.
We go to Blake Island when we can, it's a day trip from here, or Bainbridge.
Hope to see you out sometime.
Boatyarddog
1979 Mariner Ketch, "Cloud Duster"

[sailcrazy]

One fact that has notbeen mentioned yet....the Honda uses gas, not diesel. If you're OK with carrying gas on your boat-go for it. But the smell, the flammability, and the hassle of carrying gas is something I would certainly consider .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

One fact that has notbeen mentioned yet....the Honda uses gas, not diesel. If you're OK with carrying gas on your boat-go for it. But the smell, the flammability, and the hassle of carrying gas is something I would certainly consider .

If one has a dinghy outboard one already has that problem resolved, share the petrol twixt the two.

[sailcrazy]

True....Unless one only carries only a single, small container-in the dinghy (as a backup/get home resupply only for the dink).

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Emmalina

I had an 8kw Onan for years never used it as it was installed to run AC which was removed years ago. Sold it and used the money for more solar and a Lithium installation. Best thing I ever did and a lot more space in the engine room. Also bought a Honda for emergency use and welding.

OP is in rain country with low sun elevation and little wind most days. Solar or wind gen is not very useful there. On the other hand, he has 2 alternators and diesels are so reliable that if maintained the chances of not starting are minuscule, and in that case you have more serious issues than having to take cold showers.
You don't need the non-functional AC unit. Remove that and the generator and use the space for batteries. You might consider a heating system like Webasco. Heats both water and air.
When ready to cruise south, add solar and bring several fans for cooling in the cabin.

[Ayb]

Right, I will carry a little gasoline for the outboard so sharing it with the Honda generator seems reasonable. I need to rework on stern storage (I posted a thread about that and got great suggestions) and hopefully I can incorporate a gas generator "locker" on the opposite side of the propane locker.

I'm definitely more concerned about heat than cooling and I've been reading about diesel heaters. Right now there's no ducting in any of the cabins/state rooms so I'll be starting from scratch. We have one of those diesel heater stoves in the salon but it won't keep anyone comfortable at night. It came with a failing circulating fan so I haven't had a chance to fully test it out yet.

With the generator gone I may have additional space to install a good size diesel heater in the engine room but I'm not sure that's compliant, I need to learn more about what's acceptable there. Otherwise I'm not sure where a heater can live, this boat doesn't have any lockers or compartments accessible from the deck by design (except the chain locker of course).

[Ayb]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Hey welcome to the Forum.
Pousbou would be Liberty Bay, nice part of the Sound.
We're down in Olympia ourselves.

We're at Poulsbo yacht club, the first slip from the water side so very easy to spot as you approach the port of poulsbo she's the white hull ketch with four teak boxes on the stern (for now)

[alamoana]

I would get rid of the genset as it is only needed for AIr conditioning. I added solar and never used my genset again. Less weight, less trouble, more space!

[Pizzazz]

A nice, running, diesel genset is quite useful to be fair and it is not that noisy. I am using mine for charging, heating water, cooking, heating/cooling the cabins. I have a small inverter only for electronics and one of the fridges and the microwave.

I could probably do without air conditioning, granted. Charging could be done from the alternators but only under way, it is silly to start the 450 hp Cummins just to charge, heat water or cook. Yes, I could install a diesel heater, it would be more efficient but negligible effect overall. A watermaker is also a useful device that is simpler and cheaper with a generator. Also, reversing the logic mentioned above, if you have a new, reliable generator, you need less battery capacity since you can recharge at will.

I believe the cost of a new generator is comparable to the cost of additional batteries, solar, installing a diesel heater, installing a gas cooker, etc. Some will mention redundancy (i.e. if the generator fails than you need the inverter + the alternators to cook) and that depends a lot on your cruising style and tolerance to risk. With a generator you have the same experience whether at the dock or on anchor. Without one, you have multiple systems for each mode (i.e. electric heaters at the dock, diesel heaters at anchor, engine supplied heat under way and you need to constantly switch among these options - not easy for guests who are new to boating to manage all this).

MV Ithaka

[E185640]

My two cents...
Honda as a cheap interim solution (third back-up after refit)...longer run install solar (as much as you can), enlarge your battery bank with LFP and all the system changes required to support them safely, install a high output alternator on main engine as a secondary to the solar, size your inverter/charger to support the washer and water maker, change the water maker to a 12/24V DC unit....\cast off

[PineyWoodsPete]

You must have considerable water tankage with your sizable boat, so I would defer the water-maker until you're crossing oceans or going down south-of-the-border.

Back in the mid-nineties we bought our used F-P Antigua 37 cat in Seattle and I installed a Village Marine 6gph unit. Found that the 150W solar panel I installed over the davits could power it with the membrane pressure turned down from ~850 psi to ~500, drawing 10 amps rather than the usual 20, and get about 3gph good water in decent sun at anchor down in Mexico and Central America, supplying all our needs in several hours. Modern day units are much more efficient...

[Martinini]

Harbor Freight sells a 3500 Watt Generator for a $1000. Just as good as a Honda. Had one for awhile now. Keep it on the stern deck. I use it for AC when the no-see-ums descend on the boat! Don't like sleeping in hot weather under no-see-um netting. And it is quiet.

[jimellifritt]

Originally Posted by Ayb

The generator on our boat needs a bottom end rebuild and I've been debating whether to bother or to just get rid of it and free up space in the engine room. It's an old 8kw westerbeke 3-cylinder and while it probably was very useful decades ago the equipment it's meant to power is mostly decomissioned or in need of replacement. Our plan is to cruise locally in the Puget sound and desolation sound and work up to bigger adventures in a few years.

* She had two marine air heat pump systems, the aft one is long gone and the salon one is there but needs work and I'm debating whether to repair it or install the latest marine air or just free up space and declutter. We have a diesel furnace as well for heat.
* We're not keeping the washer/dryer
* Previous owner had a dive compressor, we're not divers and removed it
* Our engine has two alternators and the battery banks aren't huge, I'd love to have more but I'm still looking for where to physically put them. Motoring for two hours seems to charge the batteries nicely.
* We have an inverter but haven't really needed it's output yet and it doesn't power much, just an outlet or two.
* Most importantly, the water maker is old and has been decomissioned for a while, I suspect recomissioning it will not be cheaper or easier than installing a more modern and probably better and more efficient one. We don't likely need a water maker for a few years yet but that alone gives me pause, I can see us using a generator to power a water maker some day.
* Refrigeration is engine compressor / 12v pump / 120v pump but needs servicing and repair, again it seems running the engine would do the trick but I could imagine the convenience at anchor with the generator

In the end I'm debating where to put the effort and money. We don't have wind or solar yet, the battery banks aren't huge, but some day a water maker is in the cards. Should we rebuild the generator as a matter of course or replace it with something more modern? Or is it really not worth the hassle if we don't "require" air conditioning and heat pump and a washing machine?

I'm also a bit nervous about how the generator will come out for rebuild or replacement or removal. I think I can get it out on pieces but having to take apart a brand new one to get it in there doesn't sound great.

We had same issues when we did our master plan 5 years ago. We were from PNW. The generator was the last major thing we did. Went with a 6 KW Northern lights.
We were able to salvage the water maker, new motor resolved this. We added 1200 watts of solar, in the NW that mean you get half on average day, and depends on direction you are pointing. All three reverse cycles were replaced in time. Would not have done the pilot house if I were to do it again. Diesel heater is a Olympic, very satisfied. I would try to do an estimate of DC power usage when at anchor, and use that to drive your plan. We find even in Mexico we will be at 72% in morning, and it will be until 7pm to get to 98%. We cruise fulltime and are grateful to have the extra power when we need it. We kept our washer dryer combo, it has been a gift. When you watch people log their 25 pounds of clothes to laundry mat, we are grateful.
Generators are a luxury, but if your boat has longterm cruising applications, I believe they are a necessity. Many boats in Mexco will use the Honda 2000, but just one other thing to fuel and secure. Good luck in you planning.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Ayb

The generator on our boat needs a bottom end rebuild and I've been debating whether to bother or to just get rid of it and free up space in the engine room. It's an old 8kw westerbeke 3-cylinder and while it probably was very useful decades ago the equipment it's meant to power is mostly decomissioned or in need of replacement. Our plan is to cruise locally in the Puget sound and desolation sound and work up to bigger adventures in a few years.

* She had two marine air heat pump systems, the aft one is long gone and the salon one is there but needs work and I'm debating whether to repair it or install the latest marine air or just free up space and declutter. We have a diesel furnace as well for heat.
* We're not keeping the washer/dryer
* Previous owner had a dive compressor, we're not divers and removed it
* Our engine has two alternators and the battery banks aren't huge, I'd love to have more but I'm still looking for where to physically put them. Motoring for two hours seems to charge the batteries nicely.
* We have an inverter but haven't really needed it's output yet and it doesn't power much, just an outlet or two.
* Most importantly, the water maker is old and has been decomissioned for a while, I suspect recomissioning it will not be cheaper or easier than installing a more modern and probably better and more efficient one. We don't likely need a water maker for a few years yet but that alone gives me pause, I can see us using a generator to power a water maker some day.
* Refrigeration is engine compressor / 12v pump / 120v pump but needs servicing and repair, again it seems running the engine would do the trick but I could imagine the convenience at anchor with the generator

In the end I'm debating where to put the effort and money. We don't have wind or solar yet, the battery banks aren't huge, but some day a water maker is in the cards. Should we rebuild the generator as a matter of course or replace it with something more modern? Or is it really not worth the hassle if we don't "require" air conditioning and heat pump and a washing machine?

I'm also a bit nervous about how the generator will come out for rebuild or replacement or removal. I think I can get it out on pieces but having to take apart a brand new one to get it in there doesn't sound great.

Sounds to me like you can get rid of it. No heatpump, no washer/dryer, no dive compressor...
I never needed a generator in decades of Puget Sound sailing.
Add more batteries there. Lots of motoring here in the PNW and it's easy to keep things charged without wind, solar or generator.
I'd try a new membrane on the water maker and see if it works though. It's handy to have if you are going "outback' away from docks for extended periods. Although in BC water at the dock is readily available.

[Ayb]

Thanks, I really appreciate everyone's perspectives on this, I have a lot to think about.

I do have long-term cruising ambitions but we're just getting started with this boat (and sailing in general) and there are a lot of things to fix and equipment that's more or less end-of-life. I'm really tempted to start ripping things out but I'm trying to be cautious and make sure I have a longer-term plan.

The water maker is a village marine (I think it's that 6gph model) and the membranes have just been sitting there, I may have spares though. The pump is off the boat in a box and it's unclear what needs to happen to re-commission that unit but it looks like much more modern 12V water makers are available on the market and if/when we needed one we can buy a whole new system and install it. Meanwhile I could clean out a whole mess of plumbing and wiring by removing the village marine and rethink where the water marker should even be mounted.

My raw water source is a stainless steel sea chest system with multiple valves (and one big intake in the hull) so it's relatively easy to re-route something or disconnect something that used raw water and later connect something else back up.

One odd (to me anyway) example is a washdown pump located in the engine room. The previous owner's intention was to run a hose down into the engine room to wash the anchor chain however that's a long way to run a hose and the whole thing seems like an accident waiting to happen so I'll be removing it entirely (I can always add a pump and plumbing in the bow). So that's one more raw water hose, pump, and wiring I can remove and that makes me happy.

The washer/dryer unit hasn't been run in a few years and without a working generator I certainly haven't tried it. I was told it never worked well for drying anyway so I thought let's just remove it but indeed it would be nice to have something in the long term, I'll probably just leave it alone until I can replace it (assuming I have the generator or gas generator or a good enough inverter to run it).

Finally the Marine Air system itself seems nice on paper but I'm not sure we really need it. Heat would be nice, especially heat exchange with the engine cooling system, but it's again a lot of power and plumbing and I'm not sure how well it ever worked. We have a diesel stove heater in the galley / salon area and I'm thinking of adding one or two diesel forced-air heaters and ducting to get heat to the aft cabin and the forward staterooms. Removing the marine air system from the salon seat and cabinets would free up a huge amount of space for storage or a water maker or any other equipment.

Indeed the fresh water tankage on this boat is significant and we have additional "drinking water" poly tanks installed in a locker (I think they were added because the previous owner didn't fully trust the main tank and let water sit there for a long time, in fact the boat would sit for a long time, period) so a water marker is a ways out for us in terms of immediate needs.

I'm still tracing through the two battery banks and alternators and trying to work out what each alternator actually does and their size. I'd like to replace the batteries in the near future (they're flooded cell lead-acid) and I'd like to rethink the way the windlass is powered (huge cable running to the 12V windlass and significant drain on the batteries).