how much should this worry me

[KayZee]

Prepurchase survey. As mentioned in another thread, It's a rare model and I can't just walk down the dock or to another broker and find another one like it was a jennie, bennie or cattie. Surveyor and yard manager called it paint burn and said it was a galvanic reaction. The surveyor said the hazing on the seacocks was "surface" and declared sound for usage. Yard made a quote for repair to hull paint and missing paint on keel.



It's a 41 footer with lots of "stuff" including AC and it's a split AC system with 2 30amp connectors. There IS a galvanic isolator in the system.


Q#1 Yard said keel was lead and the specs say iron. The keel has similar paint issues, is that possible with a lead keel? Or is it that all the copper in the bottom paint is one big conductor?


Q#2 Could this be marina specific, i.e. some boat near him is dumping voltage in the water, and may not be a problem in my home marina 100 miles away?


Q#3 Would you walk away over this? Ask that it be remediated before sale or simply ask for a financial reduction to cover an electrical survey once the boat is home?



I'll add that the surveyor found no obvious deviations from accepted safety norms though he did say the split AC system was odd and not how most boats would do it but overall the wiring is neat, bright and to ABYC spec.


All thoughts appreciated,


Kurt

[sailorboy1]

My thoughts are you paid a surveyor and should listen to them.

My second it that this a bonded boat and there is a problem somewhere in the bonding. Chances it is some other boat is very remote.

My third is that it mostly likely is a steel keel, use a magnetic to find out.

My fourth is that a split AC is pretty normal, i have one. This makes your surveyor questionable.

Fifth, I have no way to decide what I would do as a buyer. Only you can answer that.

[BobHorn]

Split AC is pretty common on power boats. No reason it could not be used on a sailboat.

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

My thoughts are you paid a surveyor and should listen to them.

My second it that this a bonded boat and there is a problem somewhere in the bonding. Chances it is some other boat is very remote.

My third is that it mostly likely is a steel keel, use a magnetic to find out.

My fourth is that a split AC is pretty normal, i have one. This makes your surveyor questionable.

Fifth, I have no way to decide what I would do as a buyer. Only you can answer that.

oh feek, I may never figure out multi-quoting. So here goes


First, thank for your thoughts. The boat is 70 miles away and back in the water). i trust the surveyor. it's only his job to note the condition and issues, not to solve them. The PO changed one of the power cords because he was burining up regular kind. Surveyor was dubious because the clarification he asked for wasn't making sense and it was the end of an already overlong day. The PO is quite old and it was challenging to get clear and consisten answers. The follow up questions for the surveryor are still pending; hopefully later today.



I appreciate your opinion on the matter of is it the water or the boat.



Of course you can't decide for me. I was just digging for a direct answer to how serious is this. Since the paint rot is a surprise and shows that there's something at issue, I'll be requesting a sufficient discount to the negotiated price. To excuse myself even further, no matter who it is, riggers, yard managers and surveyors, everything is maybe this, maybe that, liability safe waffle answers and contradicting information. I'm just trying to sort it all out as a still newish sailor and decide how much to offer for this boat.


Thanks again,


Kurt

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by BobHorn

Split AC is pretty common on power boats. No reason it could not be used on a sailboat.

The AC, like the in-mast furling main, is not something I would have chosen. Where I am in Southern California, our waters are cool year round, theres almost always a sea breeze and few S/V's have AC. It's not the split shore power that gave the Surveyor pause, it's the explanation of how and why it was implemented. I'm not particularly worried about this part of it; it's just one of the many clues that may or may not affect the more serious issue of that galvanic rot on the bottom paint.



Thanks,


Kurt

[SteveSadler]

It just doesn't matter. If you like it buy it! It won't sink the day you own it.

[chasfgr]

Agree with many of the points, and wonder about the surveyor's competence.


Does he have any Personal Indemnity Insurance. The enquiries carried out for that are your best bet about knowledge and competence.


Without sight of the boat, I wouldn't like to opine further, but lead keels are expensive and unusual even in one-off boats - exceptioal in mass produced boats.


My boat, as a preproduction prototype was one of only 2/81 to have a lead keel. On all the production boats theyreduced ballast and increased fresh water capacity - to get the same waterlines.

[guyrj33]

At this point you don’t know what the cause of the problem is.
But with testing and analysis electrical system can be figured out and the problem solved.
In your position I think I would buy the boat and ask for some discount to fix the problem.

[mvweebles]

Good article by Steve d'Antonio on reference cell test of bonding system that will help isolate whether or not there is a DC stray current issue.

https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/r...al-old-vs-new/

If (big if) there is an advanced corrosion problem, the impact is not trivial and will take time and money to resolve. Given the unknown, will be difficult to arrive at a satisfactory price reduction between seller and buyer. You may want to find a solid marine electrician to further diagnose.

[Searles]

From the verry limited fotos I would be willing to bet that the bonding wires are bare and in contact with the bilge water ,and or ,it’s in contact with the battery negative some where,different results for iron or lead keel .

[Portage_bay]

Regarding the paint burn. I purchased a boat with the same condition. Surveyor said she was over zinced. It turned out to be a failed bonding system. That's just one data point, take it for what it's worth.

[boat driver]

The point circle sots on keel appear to be a slight stray current discharge point- like a boil on your skin- the area around is water getting under the paint.
focus on stray bonding wire or simply cut all the bonding out -
take a hammer and smack the exposed keel bolts- see if they all "ring" the same- especially the one wettest- if that is the one transmitting the power.
\old shore cord? that one is carrying the heavier load- when getting boat trace that one and check- maybe a loaded down or worn motor on that circuit.

[sinnerman]

On the first pic of the corroded thru-hulls, to me (IMHO) it looks like salt water corrosion on the bronze (brass?) fittings. Maybe the boat had some salt water in this area at one time. Note the corrosion is on the wooden bulkhead as well..

The keel damage and thru-hull paint "burn off": Yes this could be caused by another boat's AC (Shore power ) leakage. If your boat was between the leaking boat and the grounding source the leakage could use your boat as a "jumper" to get closer to the ground.

The paint damage around the thru-hulls could also be caused by poor thru-hull installation allowing water under the paint and then seeping into the fiberglass.


I have an old 16K BTU Cruisair split unit on my boat. It came with the boat and they were common in the day. Today you would install a modern, more energy-efficient, self-contained unit.

The beauty of the split (in my case) is that the compressor is located in the stern lazarette so its noise is not resonating through the main cabin. Just a pleasant "hum" when it is running.

The downside is that there is copper tubing (Freon) running through my bilge from the compressor to the V-Berth where the evaporator is located.

If you want more confidence in your purchase, hire a second surveyor to look at the boat again. A surveyor only knows what HE knows, and sometimes that "knowledge" is incorrect, something he "heard from someone else" or his assumptions.

I watched a YouTube video of one "surveyor" telling the young boat owners you could use the decompression levers to shut off the diesel engine (A big no-no)...

There are accreditation organizations for true marine surveyors (ABYC, NAMS etc. ) . Since boat repairs are extremely EXPENSIVE, it may be worth the money up front to get a "second opinion".

Here is an article on marine surveyors:
https://dwr.virginia.gov/blog/hiring...0believe%20you.

Cheers

[OS2Dude]

Define 'split A/C'. Is it split as in two separate A/Cs or split as in a separate cooler and compressor? We have a Webasto self-contained A/C aboard our 30 Catalina. These units are usually used when added after the fact. A boat that was designed to have A/C may very well have separate components.

We also have dual 30A inlets. One is dedicated to the A/C (Peak draw 25A) and the other is for the rest. I'd be a bit concerned over the explanation that they put in dual inlets because they were 'burning up' the single inlet. (Ours tripped a lot before putting in the dedicated service, but it never burned.)

[MJH]

Originally Posted by KayZee

Prepurchase survey. As mentioned in another thread, It's a rare model and I can't just walk down the dock or to another broker and find another one like it was a jennie, bennie or cattie. Surveyor and yard manager called it paint burn and said it was a galvanic reaction. The surveyor said the hazing on the seacocks was "surface" and declared sound for usage. Yard made a quote for repair to hull paint and missing paint on keel.

It's a 41 footer with lots of "stuff" including AC and it's a split AC system with 2 30amp connectors. There IS a galvanic isolator in the system.

Q#1 Yard said keel was lead and the specs say iron. The keel has similar paint issues, is that possible with a lead keel? Or is it that all the copper in the bottom paint is one big conductor?

Q#2 Could this be marina specific, i.e. some boat near him is dumping voltage in the water, and may not be a problem in my home marina 100 miles away?

Q#3 Would you walk away over this? Ask that it be remediated before sale or simply ask for a financial reduction to cover an electrical survey once the boat is home?

I'll add that the surveyor found no obvious deviations from accepted safety norms though he did say the split AC system was odd and not how most boats would do it but overall the wiring is neat, bright and to ABYC spec.

All thoughts appreciated, Kurt

Like all investments, if you don't fully understand the thing then walk away. Don't be swayed by "lots of stuff". Rare models or one-offs may be reason alone.

So your choices are to find out what is going on with the boat to your satisfaction or walk away.

Good Luck.