Honda 2000 built in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

NEED HELP
Anybody knows the whole story on the DC 12 V side of the Honda 2200i

On page 75 is the wiring diagram
http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/...X31Z446010.pdf

On the upper part there is the DC OUTLET RECEPTABLE wires W/R and Bl/R that go to the RECTIFIER

From the RECTIFIER there are 2 wires B/R and B/R that go all the way down directly to DC WINDING

Nº 1
Does that mean the DC power is totally isolated from the AC and an independent unit from the rest of the GEN ?
DC and AC share the same generator main shaft but that´s all ?
DC is an independent and isolated coil ?
Is that correct ?

Nº 2
Manual says DC max output 8,3 Amp
How much is DC output in ECO Mode ?

ok yes the dc charging circuit is completely separate from the AC side .
See diagram.

As far as I see the 8 amp is a near constant similar to the charging circuit on a small outboard motor .

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

ok yes the dc charging circuit is completely separate from the AC side .
See diagram.

As far as I see the 8 amp is a near constant similar to the charging circuit on a small outboard motor .

Thxs, trying to figure out how much amp min power I have.
RPM lower at ECO but support of GEN in Island Mode constant.
I like that isolated alternator. Most likely it will last forever.
Yes, unregulated power supply but independent battery will stabilyze.
No hand crank I need battery for starter, small, independent from DC boat .
Still trying to use the cooling fans and charging them of the shelf big emergency starter power supplies with BMS
Won´t take much to keep it full. Starter motor won´t use much if only used for this purpose but this battery has options for other good use off the boat. Lot´s of power,light weight and super easy charge everywhere
Has plenty to start main engine
ME never ever dead

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Thxs, trying to figure out how much amp min power I have.
RPM lower at ECO but support of GEN in Island Mode constant.
I like that isolated alternator. Most likely it will last forever.
Yes, unregulated power supply but independent battery will stabilyze.
No hand crank I need battery for starter, small, independent from DC boat .
Still trying to use the cooling fans and charging them of the shelf big emergency starter power supplies with BMS
Won´t take much to keep it full. Starter motor won´t use much if only used for this purpose but this battery has options for other good use off the boat. Lot´s of power,light weight and super easy charge everywhere
Has plenty to start main engine
ME never ever dead

a couple things first off it takes horsepower to run the dc generator
Not a lot but some.
And there isn't much extra with the little 2200 inverter generators.
The dc generator unit likely looks like this . ( this is a 17 amp unit but you get the idea)

[newhaul]

This gasoline marine genset just showed up and the price is great .
https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/b...040341257.html

[Chotu]

About filling tanks on the boat.

How are you supposed to fill the boat itself (inboard gasoline tanks) if you can't fill gasoline tanks on the boat?

I'm quite fearful of static discharge igniting stray fumes in a fuel tank, so I touch the gasoline hose/nozzle to the tank or boat prior to opening the cap to start fueling.

Anything wrong with that?

I fill my dinghy tank onboard that way. Every megayacht in the world has a below decks gasoline tank and pump to fill the tenders. I learned it from them. I have the capability to fill dinghy fuel tanks from my fueling system. I do that filling from the main boat and I do it on the deck of the main boat.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

a couple things first off it takes horsepower to run the dc generator
Not a lot but some.
And there isn't much extra with the little 2200 inverter generators.
The dc generator unit likely looks like this . ( this is a 17 amp unit but you get the idea)

Of course and the Honda engine gxr 120 with 3,6 HP is already doing a great job
https://engines.honda.com/models/mod...Specifications

As a64pilot mentioned when it comes to serious cooling fans this might get critical but talking about the 8 amps and in relation to the AC unit I don´t believe it will take noticeable power to run the DC coils at full load. Als took again a close look at this oil cooling story. Yes, there is even the drain plug but the quantity of oil in the pan is very little. It might take off some heat from the housing, crank shaft etc but the real cooling is required at top of cylinder and close to the burn chamber.
However I am still inclined the cooling can be done when applying the sum of all parameters of passive cooling analyzed till now; but in case not, the fans have to carry the extra load. This load must come from the portable battery and what I can not charge with the DC coils of the Gen has to come from somewhere else. Of course that would not be a problem but then I have to implicate the AC side which would make it more easy to fail, or just plug in to the boats DC but loosing the fully independent island mode.

Thinking about what Chotu send the other day Mess 251-252 ventilation,

Stage 3 taking our flat surface "INSIDE".

Well, there are certainly some parameters when it comes to the definition "inside" I would think that might need a better definition as we are only looking for certain areas on the boat and there are not to many I can think of. However till now we did not limit "inside". I am sure You agree there is a big difference between inside a box above and below deck. Also there would be a big difference between the deck and a bridge deck in the aft area of the boat. By that I also want to point out that a box above deck and a locker that is part of the boat is also not the same. It won´t affect the portability and my main concern is also not complying with standards in this moment but focusing on what is the primary objective...... Electric start on a portable Honda 2000 and having more or less an easy Plug+Play and practical installation that is safe that takes advantage of the features of this GEN.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Chotu

About filling tanks on the boat.

How are you supposed to fill the boat itself (inboard gasoline tanks) if you can't fill gasoline tanks on the boat?

I'm quite fearful of static discharge igniting stray fumes in a fuel tank, so I touch the gasoline hose/nozzle to the tank or boat prior to opening the cap to start fueling.

Anything wrong with that?

I fill my dinghy tank onboard that way. Every megayacht in the world has a below decks gasoline tank and pump to fill the tenders. I learned it from them. I have the capability to fill dinghy fuel tanks from my fueling system. I do that filling from the main boat and I do it on the deck of the main boat.

The worst case for static is dry air, which usually means very cold air, neither of which we will ever see on a boat, cause I’m allergic to cold..
However there were so many instances of aircraft fires when “Hot” refueling helicopters in Vietnam that it led the Army to closed circuit refueling, as you know Vietnam is neither cold nor dry so it’s still a problem.

To refuel an aircraft you first ground the aircraft, then you ground the refueling truck, then you bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft, this pretty much eliminates static differentials, however fuel falling through the air will generate static too, and for this reason tanker trucks are usually bottom loaded, and if loaded from the top they use a long dip tube that will be under the surface of the liquid fuel, so there is no air drop.

I refueled my Honda often last year, Running out of fuel when making water is probably bad on the watermaker so I’d top if off often, because without a gauge how much fuel you have is a guess.
This year the plan is to use a 6gl outboard fuel tank which has a gauge of course and holds more than 5 gls, so when it gets close to empty I’ll syphon it’s entire contents of the 5 gl can into it.
I figure that was I’m only refueling once a month and spilling should not be a problem, spills were usually from overfilling, because until it’s full you don’t know how much is in the Honda.

I figure this way I’m only going to refuel maybe once a month or so as opposed to nearly every other day, that ought to make it much safer, and if your really concerned you could just take the dinghy tank in and have it refilled, then there is no refilling on the boat.

[warrior 90]

Well, there is more REAL news
Last week I send a mail to FROG.......

I pretend to use Your starter kit on a Honda 2200i for my design in a closed housing.
Is Your starter motor explosion proof ?......just a question with implications for my design
Please send me info on:
change dimensions in regards to adapt to Honda 2200i,
required changes to on housing to adapt and integrate the starter motor
power transmission
maintenance requirements
__________________________________________________ _______
1. Not explosion Proof
2. No changes in design, kit fits EU2000i and EU2200i
3. The Honda housing is not changed, the fuel tank is removed and the inverter is moved around inside to allow for starter.
4. Do not understand “Power transmission”?
5. No change in generator maintenance
All pictures are on the website- use desktop view. Choose Base or Full Kits (based on specification of use) plus any accessories like the Choke and Remote Controls (Wired or wireless)
__________________________________________________ ________
THXs for fast response
Nº 4 There is good visual on external choke kit but not of internal starter
I see photo Fig 2 Item Nº1 Starter motor with gear
How is gear connected to crank shaft ?
or fly wheel ?
__________________________________________________ ___________
The starter assembly replaces the pull starter. I do not share the details of how I do my patented device. Purchase a kit and try it. I have sold hundreds with no complaints.
PS: if you are going to box the unit you MUST vent the entire exhaust and cooling air end of the generator or it will overheat and starve the unit for oxygen.



Ahh, Yes well...the patent BS ?
At least he could have asked me what I mean by service friendly

Well, what ever.

So he took the tank outside that represents the volume of 1 gal of fuel and of course he also eliminated the hand crank. I guess that will answer lot´s of questions. Yeah, the Pinella version is a lot better but for what we pretend it is sufficient.
Of course this is not what I would understand as service friendly. Trying to imagine what could happen when I sit somewhere in paradise and I can´t cook because my Genni is in a bad mood.

OK, the 2000-2200 models use the Honda GXr 120 engine which is part of the GX family design but with a slight modification for what they call log splitter application "GXr". However having a close look at the GX 160 there is an electric start option. The difference in regards between the two is the Mod 160 comes with an extra geared ring mounted to the fly wheel and the GX 120 does not but since I could find starter kits on ebay Amazon that are both for the Mod 160/200 I asume all the fly wheel sizes for the engine family GX are the same. I don´t think there is an official Parts Nº for the RING GEAR and why should there be if Honda has no application.
How ever I believe the Flywheel for all models 120(160/200 are the same as are the starter motor kits available everywhere in the aftermarket. Best place to research is the boys that fool around with the GoKarts and Quads. They use the Honda clones from the Harbour Freight Predators. With reasons of this idea for our Honda 2000 I did some digging alreadt some time ago and remember also finding a company/resources for this geared ring... yeah well, Sorry,can´t find it right now.

Ok, I asume that will answer all the question in regards service friendly,the Ring Gear and the 4-500 $ patent.
However he also offers mounting the whole kit with wireless control for You in Your generator if desired and in regards there is also the option to use the remote control kits from Pinella.

So now taking the tank outside there is a lot of space inside the Genni. Now that is a totally different story, Right ?
In regards to > PS: if you are going to box the unit you MUST vent the entire exhaust and cooling air end of the generator or it will overheat and starve the unit for oxygen.

Well, I asume we know all that by now and a lot more.

[Franziska]

We have a 2kw genset and use it for hot water and charging as we only have outboards.
To rely purely on a genset or even needing to run a genset to be able to cook sounds weird to me.

Use gas/alcohol anything else for cooking, but purely electric.. (???).
Running a genset every couple of days for an hour is about OK (we still do not like it) but planning of running it several times per day???

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The worst case for static is dry air, which usually means very cold air, neither of which we will ever see on a boat, cause I’m allergic to cold..
However there were so many instances of aircraft fires when “Hot” refueling helicopters in Vietnam that it led the Army to closed circuit refueling, as you know Vietnam is neither cold nor dry so it’s still a problem.

To refuel an aircraft you first ground the aircraft, then you ground the refueling truck, then you bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft, this pretty much eliminates static differentials, however fuel falling through the air will generate static too, and for this reason tanker trucks are usually bottom loaded, and if loaded from the top they use a long dip tube that will be under the surface of the liquid fuel, so there is no air drop.

I refueled my Honda often last year, Running out of fuel when making water is probably bad on the watermaker so I’d top if off often, because without a gauge how much fuel you have is a guess.
This year the plan is to use a 6gl outboard fuel tank which has a gauge of course and holds more than 5 gls, so when it gets close to empty I’ll syphon it’s entire contents of the 5 gl can into it.
I figure that was I’m only refueling once a month and spilling should not be a problem, spills were usually from overfilling, because until it’s full you don’t know how much is in the Honda.

I figure this way I’m only going to refuel maybe once a month or so as opposed to nearly every other day, that ought to make it much safer, and if your really concerned you could just take the dinghy tank in and have it refilled, then there is no refilling on the boat.

I always felt like the falling fuel could generate static.

Then I wonder how millions and millions of cars are top filled with gasoline all the time without any fuel being ignited.

What do you make of that?

I'm essentially bonding the fill hose and nozzle to the tank and filler hose in the boat every time I do a fill up. I deliberately touch it all together and then hold it together as I open the filler cap and start refueling. That's for the main 150 gallons of gasoline. Everything involved is plastic except the fuel fill nozzle when I go to a dock to fill up.

When filling my little outboar tank for the dinghy from those larger main tanks, I do the same, except it's probably overkill since the large tank is attached to the boat, and the large tank is attached to the deck from the large filler hose and deck fuel fill receptacle.

I am placing the small tank on the deck to refuel (just easier than trying to bring a hose to the dinghy), then I still take the hose and hold it on the small tank while opening and refueling. My onboard refueling system branches off the main fuel system after the fuel filters and fuel pump.

I think the majority of problems occur when the thing being refueled and the thing doing the refueling are brought into contact with cap to the tank open. That's my theory anyway.

But how about those cars? What are they doing? Seems like a whole lot of nothing.

No problem there.

Are we just too paranoid?

I'm also not aware of many boats just blowing up during a refuel. It's usually as they try to start an engine or something sparks with fumes in the bilge, right?

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Franziska

We have a 2kw genset and use it for hot water and charging as we only have outboards.
To rely purely on a genset or even needing to run a genset to be able to cook sounds weird to me.

Use gas/alcohol anything else for cooking, but purely electric.. (???).
Running a genset every couple of days for an hour is about OK (we still do not like it) but planning of running it several times per day???

I think of the Genni only to add what I can not produce otherwise with prime focus on solar. You can also call it back up
Of course now everything depends on relation of Your batteries size in relation to consumers.
The less different energy systems You have the more cleaner install and the less maintenance

Of course that are all general views that have to be put to practice.
Can this be done with a Honda 2000 ?

Many people do it and more could but I agree with a Schnitzel, Spätzle and Kartoffelsalat it gets a little more complicated if You wanna eat it all on the same day.

[AKA-None]

Gas doesn’t free fall in a car it flows down the fill pipe.

[a64pilot]

Fuel doesn’t fall when filling a car, it runs down the fuel tank neck, not fall.
And if you look on the Internet you’ll See that while rare there are quite a few fires.
Most of them caused from the static of the person themselves going to sit in the car then coming back and grabbing the fuel nozzle. It’s felt that if they grabbed the car first there would be no spark.
The overwhelming number of fires were with Women, it’s theorized they are more likely to sit in the car when the tank is filling and therefore may pick up a static charge.
https://www.salina.com/lifestyle/201...ctricity-fires

There were also quite a few fires from filling portable tanks in the back of pickups with plastic bed liners, from you guessed it, static

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

at about $10,000

in the past 3 years I've spent more fixing my 3kw pos diesel generator than the cost of a Honda that does 75% of what it could

So I don’t ever get one what kind of diesel genset do you have? FP?

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I always felt like the falling fuel could generate static.

Then I wonder how millions and millions of cars are top filled with gasoline all the time without any fuel being ignited.

What do you make of that?

I'm essentially bonding the fill hose and nozzle to the tank and filler hose in the boat every time I do a fill up. I deliberately touch it all together and then hold it together as I open the filler cap and start refueling. That's for the main 150 gallons of gasoline. Everything involved is plastic except the fuel fill nozzle when I go to a dock to fill up.

When filling my little outboard tank for the dinghy from those larger main tanks, I do the same, except it's probably overkill since the large tank is attached to the boat, and the large tank is attached to the deck from the large filler hose and deck fuel fill receptacle.

I am placing the small tank on the deck to refuel (just easier than trying to bring a hose to the dinghy), then I still take the hose and hold it on the small tank while opening and refueling. My onboard refueling system branches off the main fuel system after the fuel filters and fuel pump.

I think the majority of problems occur when the thing being refueled and the thing doing the refueling are brought into contact with cap to the tank open. That's my theory anyway.

But how about those cars? What are they doing? Seems like a whole lot of nothing.

No problem there.

Are we just too paranoid?

I'm also not aware of many boats just blowing up during a refuel. It's usually as they try to start an engine or something sparks with fumes in the bilge, right?

Well, I am sure with this dialog we could come up with some instructions for quality and save handling of fuel for the Honda 2000 for a more sustainable operation with an external tank since with electric start the tank is outside any way.
Of course if prime engine is Diesel it´s different because the ethanol blends are not good for long term storage.

Hahaha, are we just to paranoid ?
Hell NO, we live in a dangerous world
After the Lehman crash there was a lot of talk about safety and soft landing and now they are pumping a lot of juice from the big tank in small tanks everyday. It seems so far there are not any safety regulations required for that.
Hahaha, so why should we be so concerned touching tanks with a feather ?