Honda 2000 built in.

[jmh2002]

Just a small reminder here (depending on each members proposed use) that the Honda EU2200i Companion model can be paralleled with a second unit to give 4kW.

That might be more useful in specific situations than going for the 3000 model, whilst also providing a backup unit for normal use.

[ramblinrod]

Don’t forget that most inverter generators as supplied are not marine electrical standards compliant. I’m not sure if the manufacturers instructions have any requirements for marine application or mounting in an enclosure, but I do know that when one mounts a gasoline engine in an enclosed compartment a whole pile of marine standards come into play.

Should anyone care, a marine surveyor would rightfully cite every non-compliance so it may be worth your while to check this out before you start McGivering portable generators on your boat.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Don’t forget that most inverter generators as supplied are not marine electrical standards compliant. I’m not sure if the manufacturers instructions have any requirements for marine application or mounting in an enclosure, but I do know that when one mounts a gasoline engine in an enclosed compartment a whole pile of marine standards come into play.

Should anyone care, a marine surveyor would rightfully cite every non-compliance so it may be worth your while to check this out before you start McGivering portable generators on your boat.

categorically correct .
A surveyor will just note there is a portable generator on the vessel listed under misc. Electrical gear.

Remember the ABYC is not a legal binding governing body. They actually carry little weight in the legal world. .

[Frankly]

All this conversation peaked my interest in would a 12 YO EU 2000 start my Webasto 12,000 BTU marine AC installed in my shop. Just ran the experiment. Eco mode off the generator and the AC just got into a oscillation situation. AC comes on but generator control just starts hunting. Never does settle down.


Not anything planning on doing, but looks like I would need a new EU 2200 or a soft start kit for the AC.


Frankly

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by newhaul

categorically correct .
A surveyor will just note there is a portable generator on the vessel listed under misc. Electrical gear.

Remember the ABYC is not a legal binding governing body. They actually carry little weight in the legal world. .

But they are the accepted standard. If this is cited in your survey and you have a boat fire attributed to a faulty generator install that was not corrected, good luck dealing with your insurance company.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Ok, I'll try to be clearer.

I'm not asking if Hondas are dangerous or loud on a boat, but thanks for input.

To be more specific about built in, I'm not proposing put it downstairs to replace a regular genset, like under the front bunk etc

I was thinking more a long the lines of permanent mounting or building a box that was pleasing to the eye, or modifying a locker so that it wasnt part of inside or........

Just wondering if some creative minded fellow had done something like this ie the photo I originally attached as an example.

^^^

Recent posts, especially by one particular member, are getting off topic again.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Remember the ABYC is not a legal binding governing body. They actually carry little weight in the legal world. .

They carry the weight of federal law, in your country, and mine.


ABYC Standards have been incorporated into federal law, in, both Canada and the U.S.A.

Construction Standards for Small Vessels (2010) - TP 1332 E (Canada)
➥ https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...2-menu-521.htm
This document references the following ABYC standards:
E–10 Storage Batteries
E–11 AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats
H–2 Ventilation of Boats Using Gasoline
H–24 Gasoline Fuel Systems
H–26 Powering of Boats
H–28 Inflatable Boats
H–33 Diesel Fuel Systems
H–35 Powering and Load Capacity of Pontoon Boats
H–41 Reboarding Means, Ladders, Handholds, Rails, and Lifelines
T–5 Safety Signs and Labels

By the Authority Vested By Part 5 of the United States Code § 552(a) and Part 1 of the Code of Regulations § 51 the attached (ABYC) document has been duly INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE and shall be considered legally binding upon all citizens and residents of the United States of America.
➥ https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/175.600
46CFR § 175.600 Incorporation by reference.

(1) A-1-93, Marine Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) Systems (“ABYC A-1”), IBR approved for § 184.240(a), (c), (d), and (g).

(2) A-3-93, Galley Stoves (“ABYC A-3”), IBR approved for § 184.200.

(3) A-7-70, Boat Heating Systems (“ABYC A-7”), IBR approved for § 184.200.

(4) A-16-89, Electric Navigation Lights (“ABYC A-16”), IBR approved for § 183.130(a).

(5) A-22-93, Marine Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) Systems (“ABYC A-22”), IBR approved for § 184.240(b) through (e).

(6) E-8, Alternating Current (AC) Electrical Systems on Boats, July 2001 (“ABYC E-8”), IBR approved for §§ 183.130(a) and 183.340(b).

(7) E-9, Direct Current (DC) Electrical Systems on Boats (May 28, 1990) (“ABYC E-9”), IBR approved for §§ 183.130(a) and 183.340(b).

(8) H-2-89, Ventilation of Boats Using Gasoline (“ABYC H-2”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130 and 182.460(m).

(9) H-22-86, DC Electric Bilge Pumps Operating Under 50 Volts (“ABYC H-22”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130 and 182.500(b).

(10) H-24-93, Gasoline Fuel Systems (“ABYC H-24”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130, 182.440(d), 182.445, 182.450(f) and 182.455(c).

(11) H-25-94, Portable Gasoline Fuel Systems for Flammable Liquids (“ABYC H-25”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130 and 182.458(b).

(12) H-32-87, Ventilation of Boats Using Diesel Fuel (“ABYC H-32”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130, 182.465(i) and 182.470(c).

(13) H-33-89, Diesel Fuel Systems (“ABYC H-33”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130, 182.440(d), 182.445(f), 182.450(f) and 182.455(c).

(14) P-1-93, Installation of Exhaust Systems for Propulsion and Auxiliary Engines (“ABYC P-1”), IBR approved for §§ 177.405(b), 177.410(c), 182.130, 182.425(c), and 182.430(k).

(15) P-4-89, Marine Inboard Engines (“ABYC P-4”), IBR approved for §§ 182.130 and 182.420(b) and (d).

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

They carry the weight of federal law, in your country, and mine.


ABYC Standards have been incorporated into federal law, in, both Canada and the U.S.A.

* * *

Let's not get even further afield here, but suffice it to say that being incorporated into federal law doesn't automatically render them mandatory or even necessarily desirable. Many are advisory/recommended/discretionary, others are only required on vessels over a certain length (e.g. 65'), and others still only apply (in the US) to USCG inspected vessels.

There are also no standardized requirements in marine insurance contracts, and not necessarily everything required by an insurer means the penalty for noncompliance is to deny coverage. On the flip side, an insurance co. may exceed what the law may require.

In short, let's not bring a bunch of oversimplifications into the thread, many of which are red herrings. Just like having a propane stove onboard, there are precautions that should be taken with gasoline regardless of what may be required or not, and for the most part such precautions are pretty obvious.

[GordMay]

The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is the codification of the general and permanent rules and regulations (sometimes called administrative law) published in the Federal Register by the executive departments and agencies of the federal government of the United States.
The legal effect of incorporation by reference is that the material is treated as if it were published in the Federal Register and CFR. This material, like any other properly issued rule, has the force and effect of law.
➥ https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...locations.html

[warrior 90]

Let´s asume there is a box of certain characteristics above the waterline that has enough space where You can comfortably store a Portable Honda 2200i.

Does that comply with all the rules and standards ?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Let´s asume there is a box of certain characteristics above the waterline that has enough space where You can comfortably store a Portable Honda 2200i.

Does that comply with all the rules and standards ?

it doesn't have to comply with anything at all its a used boat that you as the owner did something that you wanted to your boat.
There are no actual enforceable laws that you would be violating just don't hook it to any actual installed fuel tank and you are fine aslong far as that is concerned.
You can hook it to a portable fuel tank to extend the run time and as long as it is not actually bolted to the vessel . A tie down strap isthe a real good idea but that is not considered permanent installation. Your boat your choice .

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is the codification of the general and permanent rules and regulations (sometimes called administrative law) published in the Federal Register by the executive departments and agencies of the federal government of the United States.
The legal effect of incorporation by reference is that the material is treated as if it were published in the Federal Register and CFR. This material, like any other properly issued rule, has the force and effect of law.
➥ https://www.archives.gov/federal-reg...locations.html

No disagreement, but unfortunately not the issue. It's not about whether the CFR regs have the force of law, but how those regs actually apply to the matter at hand. Do they apply to boats under/over a certain length? Are they discretionary/mandatory? Do they apply to the specific (portable generator) application being discussed? How so?

Maybe you or Rod can start a new thread if you're interested in getting into this level of legal minutia, but I thought this thread was mainly about the fitment of small portable generators, not how dangerous or legally compliant they may or may not be.

[a64pilot]

I would assume ABYC is mandatory, for boats manufactured after a certain date.
It’s unlikely they go backwards, just like all the safety equipment in automobiles from airbags to tire pressure warning sensors, they are mandatory for a specific date, and forward.

My boat for example does not have GFCI outlets

However I’d bet money that only installed equipment has to meet the standards, portable I bet does not.
So, if you have a brand new boat, here is a reason not to build in a Honda, cause I’d bet money the electrical system is actually the smallest of your worries there.
I doubt a Honda is ignition protected, then the dry exhaust is surely going to be another issue, and I bet the fuel system doesn’t pass muster either.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Exile

No disagreement, but unfortunately not the issue. It's not about whether the CFR regs have the force of law, but how those regs actually apply to the matter at hand. Do they apply to boats under/over a certain length? Are they discretionary/mandatory? Do they apply to the specific (portable generator) application being discussed? How so?

Maybe you or Rod can start a new thread if you're interested in getting into this level of legal minutia, but I thought this thread was mainly about the fitment of small portable generators, not how dangerous or legally compliant they may or may not be.

I simply don’t understand why some are being so overly sensitive to the suggestions that anyone contemplating enclosing a gasoline engine aboard may wish to consider applicable marine standards.

[Toccata]

Before I owned the boat (Savage/Oceanic 46 "Quiet Achiever")
Honda 2, a few years old
Freestanding on the aft deck, running to provide 240v for 10 minutes or so.
Honda was shut down, owner went below, few minutes later the deck was on fire.
No indication of problems with the Honda prior to this incident.
My only criticism of the Honda is that the shut down switch as originally installed, does not allow the carby to be run dry.