Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by Caliber40

Not to mention how can one blame the panels for the batteries going bad....need more info.....how many amps were being used daily.....how low were the batteries allowed to go (voltage)....with no battery monitor how were these parameters being verified.

Sounds like attack on seller a little premature.

Yep, someone just needed to vent/went online...

[weavis]

Just an observation.

I do my research online. For everything that I purchase. I recently got a new electronic steadicam for my camera and spent a few hours looking at SPECIFIC makes. I then checked to see what to look for in terms of fakes... and then went to EBAY for that specific product. I am happy with the purchase at a good price.

The problem arises when a person shops for unbranded goods without a history or write up. The warranty is whatever the warranty is according to the seller and frankly, they have outlined the conditions of sale pre purchase. If there is an issue with the product then it is time to negotiate with the seller WITHIN the time constraints of your agreement. NO one made you agree, you chose to.

I have had 2 occasions where I got a bad deal and both times, EBAY refunded my money and banned the trader. I have no complaints about EBAY.

If a deal seems too good to be true then...... it probably is.

I have had good use of non mainstream Chinese manufacturers goods. However, buy a product that is well known in China and used there. For example I have a SJCAM camera which is amazing.....similar to the GoPro...

They even have manufacture of FAKE SJcam cameras which makes me smile but shows the quality....

As for your installer..... you probably got unlucky.. However that is a separate issue to the quality of your goods purchased... but compounded the weakness of the panels.

Sorry for your troubles...

[SSgtPitt]

I do my own electrical work, only because I can’t find a Marine Sparky that’ll actually show up.
Everything is fused, has Ancor marine grade “shrinky dinks”, passes the pull test on the splices, is double zip tied away from heat or moving parts.....still, I know what I don’t know
And I would LOVE to have a good Sparky with some experience inspect my boat for $200.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Good To Go

I contacted VicOffroad and was told by an employee that 8 x 100 watt flexible solar panels would be ideal for my 40 amps requirement. Paid $880 for an electrician, $80 for Velcro and over $1330 for the panels. After 12 months in use found battery bank flat. Up to the roof, panels peeled, cracked, brittle and completely unserviceable. When purchased in Dec 2016 no wiring warning in product description, (kind of strange you would purchase 8 x panels and wire them individually). After endless photos and correspondence, (sorry you cannot speak to owner Mr Fei Dai, he’s out of the country) told SORRY WE CANNOT HELP YOU. Next step, off to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.

That sounds like a house installation, 8 x 100 watt Panels is a lot of area,
Bit too much for a boat,
$166-00 each is a lot of money for a 100 Watt Flexible panel,

In Australia, all Electricians are Licensed by law, This is for all mains power,
Other wise they cant touch the Electrics,
Its Illegal and carries huge Fines and can also carry a jail term,

12 volt is different, Any one can do that,

Damaged panels to that extent, You really bought some crap panels,
Who did you buy those panels from,
Highly unlikely it was an Australian company, As the law would be all over them very quickly,

You didnt buy them from VicOffroad as I would have heard of them selling crap panels,
It would have been all over all the off Road and 4 x 4 sites,
They all spread the word very quickly on crap gear from companys in OZ,

Not Fit for Purpose,
By Law, they have to either replace the panels or give you your money back,
Contact, Consumer Affairs,

Most Chinese Solar Panels sold in OZ are usually very reliable, High Quality, and come with a ten year Minimum, Guarantee, Normally,
Its a very competitive market here,

[Pete7]

The OP was on the forum for 6 minutes yesterday and hasn't logged back in so may not see these answers.

Pete

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The OP was on the forum for 6 minutes yesterday and hasn't logged back in so may not see these answers.

Pete

I was just about to post the same. If the problem were real, important, well-described, and he wanted real answers, he would participate.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by smac999

what's you definition of this? I think the only course in north america is the ABYC electrical and it's a 2 day classroom course.... I don't think we even touched a wire. but it was years ago. hardly makes anyone a professional.

I'm not aware of anything else.

I think Australia or NZ actually has a marine trade school. and legally requires this to work on boats. unlike here were nothing is required to do work. (unlike houses)

Nope.

An ABYC Certified Technician must have 2 years of practical related experience, and pass a written exam created by an association of industry professionals to continuously improve the industry standards for boat design ,building, service, and repair.

To pass the exam, one must score at least 85%.

Just passing the exam is not enough. One must have practical experience to receive certification, and then it is good for only 5 years, during which they must attain ongoing education credits, and then write a re-certification exam to retain their accreditation.
To see the requirements, you can click on the following link...

ABYC Certification Program - American Boat and Yacht Council

As a minimum, before hiring anyone to work on your boat, I recommend:

1. Request to see the marine industry association certification of the person actually performing the work.

2. Request to see the marine industry association certification of their immediate supervisor.

3. If 1) is inadequate, request in advance of hiring, if 2) will inspect, approve, and sign off on the work before invoicing.

4. If 2) above is inadequate, look elsewhere.

5. Ask to see their relevant commercial liability certificate. If inadequate, look elsewhere.

6. Ask of local boaters, who have very nicely maintained boats, who they have hired, for the same type of work, and if they would hire them again.

7. Beware of anyone willing to engage in illegal activity (work under the table for cash), or willing to work for less than market rate, (when they should have a healthy backlog of work at industry rate, if they are any good at all).

If they are not above board and in demand, chances are, they do not have the professional ability or integrity you desire, for someone to work on vessel systems, critical to your enjoyment, performance, and safety, and to stand behind their work, once completed.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by SSgtPitt

I do my own electrical work, only because I can’t find a Marine Sparky that’ll actually show up.
Everything is fused, has Ancor marine grade “shrinky dinks”, passes the pull test on the splices, is double zip tied away from heat or moving parts.....still, I know what I don’t know
And I would LOVE to have a good Sparky with some experience inspect my boat for $200.

Go here, and type in Corpus Christi.

Member Search - American Boat and Yacht Council

If you end up getting a hold of a surveyor, they should decline any repair work (conflict of interest) but refer someone capable they know.

[guyrj33]

"Nope"
Rod it sounds like your saying only ABYC certified techs can work on 12v systems. Pheraps I misunderstand the point you are trying to make.
Your explanation sounds very protective of your profession and in completely opposite to the very important seamanship quality of being able to maintain your own systems..

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Nope.

An ABYC Certified Technician must have 2 years of practical related experience, and pass a written exam created by an association of industry professionals to continuously improve the industry standards for boat design ,building, service, and repair.

To pass the exam, one must score at least 85%.

Just passing the exam is not enough. One must have practical experience to receive certification, and then it is good for only 5 years, during which they must attain ongoing education credits, and then write a re-certification exam to retain their accreditation.
To see the requirements, you can click on the following link...

ABYC Certification Program - American Boat and Yacht Council

As a minimum, before hiring anyone to work on your boat, I recommend:

1. Request to see the marine industry association certification of the person actually performing the work.

2. Request to see the marine industry association certification of their immediate supervisor.

3. If 1) is inadequate, request in advance of hiring, if 2) will inspect, approve, and sign off on the work before invoicing.

4. If 2) above is inadequate, look elsewhere.

5. Ask to see their relevant commercial liability certificate. If inadequate, look elsewhere.

6. Ask of local boaters, who have very nicely maintained boats, who they have hired, for the same type of work, and if they would hire them again.

7. Beware of anyone willing to engage in illegal activity (work under the table for cash), or willing to work for less than market rate, (when they should have a healthy backlog of work at industry rate, if they are any good at all).

If they are not above board and in demand, chances are, they do not have the professional ability or integrity you desire, for someone to work on vessel systems, critical to your enjoyment, performance, and safety, and to stand behind their work, once completed.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by smac999

what's you definition of this? I think the only course in north america is the ABYC electrical and it's a 2 day classroom course.... I don't think we even touched a wire. but it was years ago. hardly makes anyone a professional.

I'm not aware of anything else.

I think Australia or NZ actually has a marine trade school. and legally requires this to work on boats. unlike here were nothing is required to do work. (unlike houses)

Not sure if i'm reading you right.....

But here in Aus there is nothing to stop anyone working on the low voltage side of their boats, except where you employ someone (above board) to do the work, then they must have a certificate in the trade, quite a few of these have crossed over from been a qualified Auto electrician or complete training in such courses as these Course search results - TAFE Queensland Gold Coast

I can work on my boat and you can work on yours, but going by the letter of the law i can't work on yours, but for a carton of beer or 2 i'm sure we could work something out

Unfortunately (or not) the days of doing a "cashie" appear to be dwindling....

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

"Nope"
Rod it sounds like your saying only ABYC certified techs can work on 12v systems. Pheraps I misunderstand the point you are trying to make.
Your explanation sounds very protective of your profession and in completely opposite to the very important seamanship quality of being able to maintain your own systems..

No, I absolutely did not say what you stated.

I have made my position as clear as I can:

1. "EVERY boater should be capable of making emergency repairs."

2. "90% of the DIY repairs and installations I encounter are not safe.

3. "As soon a possible, have some competent inspect (and repair if necessary) DIY repairs and installations."

4. "The best way to ensure that someone is competent, is to request to see their association and insurance certifications, and get referrals from other boaters with well maintained boats."

5. "No competent marine electrical professional, works for beer, cash under the table, or for an amount lower than market rate."

In addition, I don't know why you specified "12 Vdc systems" vs just "electrical systems".

A 12 Vdc system is safer than a 120Vac in that under normal circumstances, a person will not be electrocuted by contacting 12 Vdc, where they could be by contacting 120Vac.

Beyond that, it takes 1/10 the resistance for 12 Vdc to burn the same wires that 120 Vac will. In either case, low impedance can let the magic smoke out.

However, portions of a typical marine 12 Vdc system will allow 1000's A to flow, where the worst case scenario for a 120Vac system is 30A or 50A, depending on the shore power breaker.

The belief that 12 Vdc cannot hurt someone is an absolute myth; I have seen many boats burned and people hurt by 12 Vdc wiring faults and handling errors.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

5. "No competent marine electrical professional, works for beer, cash under the table, or for an amount lower than market rate."

Utter rubbish!!

Throughout my life i have met and been associated many highly professional, big-hearted and exceedingly competent individuals from a wide range of trades and professions that have gone out of there way to assist and help those that might be down on there luck, or for whatever reason strapped for cash, some have done work for cash in hand and plenty for a beer, many have done work for nothing at all just to help out.....

Yes you need to be able to read the genuine hard luck individuals from those that are just tight-arsed with spending, but to suggest someone is less than professional and competent for helping out and doing a job on the cheap is absolute carp!

Thankfully your a minority in your views so your statements are irrelevant to real life experience.....

[john61ct]

I agree, Rod's got a dog in thiat fight. The key weasel-word there is professional, "No true Dutchman". . .

Of course with a huge crewed yacht, you'd want every service provider to have solid E&O coverage, but otherwise, some trust their intuition combined with due diligence as to honesty + proven skills.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

..........

Beyond that, it takes 1/10 the resistance for 12 Vdc to burn the same wires that 120 Vac will. In either case, low impedance can let the magic smoke out.

However, portions of a typical marine 12 Vdc system will allow 1000's A to flow, where the worst case scenario for a 120Vac system is 30A or 50A, depending on the shore power breaker.

The belief that 12 Vdc cannot hurt someone is an absolute myth; I have seen many boats burned and people hurt by 12 Vdc wiring faults and handling errors.

Hmm... Re the emphasised section - perhaps you haven't explained yourself well but I can assure you that ohms law works exactly the same 12 Vdc as for 120 Vac.

The second quoted paragraph is (IMO) disingenuous, very few parts of a typical marine 12 Vdc system will allow 1000's A to flow and mostly they do not get fault conditions that would allow such. All other parts are well protected by fuses / breakers just like a 120 Vac system. In fact 50 amps in 120 Vac system will generate ten times the heat of 50 amps in a 12 Vdc circuit. I know you know this so why suggest otherwise.

I do agree a 12 Vdc circuit can cause fire!

[Mr B]

How many 12 Volt DC, cars and trucks are burnt to the ground every year,
From Manufacturing Faults from new,
And never been touched by the DIY handy man,