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Old 15-04-2018, 21:16   #46
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Utter rubbish!!

Throughout my life i have met and been associated many highly professional, big-hearted and exceedingly competent individuals from a wide range of trades and professions that have gone out of there way to assist and help those that might be down on there luck, or for whatever reason strapped for cash, some have done work for cash in hand and plenty for a beer, many have done work for nothing at all just to help out.....

Yes you need to be able to read the genuine hard luck individuals from those that are just tight-arsed with spending, but to suggest someone is less than professional and competent for helping out and doing a job on the cheap is absolute carp!

Thankfully your a minority in your views so your statements are irrelevant to real life experience.....
Please...

A professional volunteering their time for a worthy cause is a completely different issue.
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Old 15-04-2018, 21:26   #47
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

His name is Richard C, He comes from Gladstone in Qld, His post was August 12, 2018.
On vicoffroad's google review site, He said exactly the same thing he said on here,

Google, Vicoffroad, Solar Panels.
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Old 15-04-2018, 21:44   #48
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Hmm... Re the emphasised section - perhaps you haven't explained yourself well but I can assure you that ohms law works exactly the same 12 Vdc as for 120 Vac.
If you understand ohm's law, you should understand that my statement was 100% accurate based on it.
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Old 16-04-2018, 00:01   #49
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
His name is Richard C, He comes from Gladstone in Qld, His post was August 12, 2018.
On vicoffroad's google review site, He said exactly the same thing he said on here,

Google, Vicoffroad, Solar Panels.
Ebay reviews for vicoffroad in the last 12 months: 9966 positive. 2 negative
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Old 16-04-2018, 00:05   #50
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Ebay reviews for vicoffroad in the last 12 months: 9966 positive. 2 negative
And he was one of them, Hahahahahaha
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Old 16-04-2018, 05:48   #51
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
..............


Beyond that, it takes 1/10 the resistance for 12 Vdc to burn the same wires that 120 Vac will. In either case, low impedance can let the magic smoke out.

.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
If you understand ohm's law, you should understand that my statement was 100% accurate based on it.
OK, let's tease this out.

For the sake of brevity, I'll keep the numbers simple. Let the 120 Vac circuit have a 120 ohm resistance in the wire, this will result in a current of 1 amp (I=V/R). The heat build up in this wire will be 120 watts (P=V.I).

You stated it takes 1/10 the resistance to burn the same wire in 12 Vdc circuit.

So then consider what happens with the wire having a resistance of 12 ohms (i.e. 1/10 of 120). The current (with the 12 Vdc supply) will also be 1 amp. The heat build up will now be 12 watts.

Given your statement, why will the 12 watts of heating (in the 12 Vdc system) burn the same as 120 watts (in the 120 V ac system).

Perhaps you were making a different point, if so, it isn't clear t me what it is
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Old 16-04-2018, 06:57   #52
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
His post was August 12, 2018.
Magic?
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Old 16-04-2018, 09:17   #53
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
How many 12 Volt DC, cars and trucks are burnt to the ground every year,
From Manufacturing Faults from new,
And never been touched by the DIY handy man,
The marine environment is much more harsh than residential or automotive.

Neither houses nor cars beat to weather, launching off huge waves and bashing into the next, again, and again, and again.

Yet it is essential that boat electrical systems handle this kind of abuse without failure.

Thank heavens marine electrical standards are much more stringent.

This is why it is so important that marine electrical wiring be to marine standards, and not to residential or automotive standards, or in the case of most DIY work, not to any standard whatsoever.
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Old 16-04-2018, 12:13   #54
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
OK, let's tease this out.

For the sake of brevity, I'll keep the numbers simple. Let the 120 Vac circuit have a 120 ohm resistance in the wire, this will result in a current of 1 amp (I=V/R). The heat build up in this wire will be 120 watts (P=V.I).

You stated it takes 1/10 the resistance to burn the same wire in 12 Vdc circuit.

So then consider what happens with the wire having a resistance of 12 ohms (i.e. 1/10 of 120). The current (with the 12 Vdc supply) will also be 1 amp. The heat build up will now be 12 watts.

Given your statement, why will the 12 watts of heating (in the 12 Vdc system) burn the same as 120 watts (in the 120 V ac system).

Perhaps you were making a different point, if so, it isn't clear t me what it is
For simplicity, I just demonstrated how circuit current can easily be equal, whether 120Vac or 12 Vdc.

It is actually the total energy (W-hrs) that is most closely linked to the amount of heat generated by a circuit.

What may or may not cause a fire is far too complex and varied to cover in a forum post.

Suffice it to say, 12 Vdc wiring and handling faults have caused many an injury and fire aboard boats.

The thought that it is "safe" for someone insufficiently knowledgeable and skilled to modify marine electrical wiring is clearly false.
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Old 16-04-2018, 12:24   #55
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Magic?
April 12th 2018,

I dont know where I got the August from, Must have been sleep walking,
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Old 16-04-2018, 12:32   #56
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Are they the panels that have the big red warning on the VicOffRoad website product description pages that says:

Do not wire the flexible solar panels in parallel or in series to avoid damage or shortened lifespan


If you cannot wire them series or in parallel, then it follows that you cannot use multiple panels. If this is true, which I doubt, then why did the seller supply multiple panels which would be «*unfit for purpose*».
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Old 16-04-2018, 12:58   #57
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

Rod;
A true professional would either offer a better explanation or admit to making a mistake.
V volts
R resistance
I current
P power

V=R*I
P= V*I = I(2)*R

1 amp x 120 volts will supply 10 times the power as 1 amp x 12 volts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
For simplicity, I just demonstrated how circuit current can easily be equal, whether 120Vac or 12 Vdc.

It is actually the total energy (W-hrs) that is most closely linked to the amount of heat generated by a circuit.

What may or may not cause a fire is far too complex and varied to cover in a forum post.

Suffice it to say, 12 Vdc wiring and handling faults have caused many an injury and fire aboard boats.

The thought that it is "safe" for someone insufficiently knowledgeable and skilled to modify marine electrical wiring is clearly false.
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Old 16-04-2018, 13:02   #58
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Sounds like "Bought cheap, paid dearly".



When you deal with an unknown vendor and apparently no warranty or knowledge of whether there are statutory warranties, you're shooting craps.



When a vendor of technical products makes a curious and contrary warning, like the red one about not wiring in normal ways, that's a red flag that there is something wrong about this product.



All in all...



Sounds like someone ignored all the warning signs and threw their money away.



Don't complain here, go find out what your local warranty regulations are, whether you voided them, and whether you can enforce them against the vendor.



And next time, if you can't afford a quality product from a reputable source, don't take out your wallet.


I do not agree, issues such as this should be discussed on this forum we may gain from the information. If one is a witness to an injustice, one should try and help. How do you determine a reputable source, anybody who bought a VW a couple of years ago thought that was a reputable source. OR shares in Lehmann Brothers. OR CBA. OR ........
In Oz the buyer is warranted by consumer law.
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Old 16-04-2018, 13:08   #59
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Every marine electrical system is just waiting for someone to let the magic smoke out. AC or DC matters not.

Installing a solar charging system (or performing brain surgery, or rocket science, or any activity for that matter) CORRECTLY is only simple for the people who really do know what they are doing.

About 10% of the folks who think they know what they are doing, actually do know what they are doing.

I have seen several boats burned, marina docks and fuel pumps damaged, and people hurt by incorrect marine electrical wiring.

Of the marine electrical systems I inspect, that have been modified by non-certified people, only about 10% are completed in compliance with marine standards, and at least 10% are patently unsafe (1 easily plausible condition, yet to be encountered, away from burning).

To put it in reality, 1 in 10 could catch fire any moment.

This is not an exaggeration; just because somebody has connected something to their boat, and it seems to work, does not necessarily constitute a correct and safe installation. Not by a long shot.

Most non pro installations place the owner, crew, family, and marina at unnecessary risk.

I know this because I inspect, consult, design, build, troubleshoot, repair, and install marine electrical systems, professionally.

Ask any honest, association certified, marine surveyor, how safe the average boat electrical system is?

You'll be shocked. (Har)

And yet every DIYer insists their boat is safe.

I start out my marine electrical system seminars like this:

"1. Show of hands, how many boaters here perform their own boat electrical system maintenance, repairs, and new installations."

(Typically about 50% of the audience hands go up, but I know it is more like 90%.)

"2. Show of hands, How many believe the work they have done is safe?"

(Typically all the hands stay up.)

"3. Show of hands, How many will invite me to inspect you boat's electrical system, free of charge if no issue found, $200 if I find one issue that is unsafe and needlessly risks "critical to safety" equipment failure or fire?"

(Typically all the hands go down).

4. Then I present all of the common wiring deficiencies I encounter and what can happen as a result.

5. After the seminar, about 10% walk up, hand me $200 and schedule an appointment. Until now they didn't know their boat was unsafe.

There is likely another 80% of the audience who has an unsafe boat but is not willing to spend $200 to find out.

That's right, not willing to spend $200 to help ensure their boat won't burn to the waterline tomorrow and possibly kill someone.

I would lose my shirt on these inspections, which generally consume about $500 in billable hours each, if I didn't make it back on the repairs I'm hired to perform following.

To date, the best report I have prepared had 3 faults, each of which could result in fire, explosion or electrocution. 2 were related to the AC system and 1 to the DC system.

In summary, one doesn't know what they don't know until they do and approximately 90% of boaters are in a state of blissful ignorance that their boat electrical system is safe and reliable.

I recommend:

1. Every boater learn as much as they can about their electrical system and be capable of performing emergency repairs.

2. After doing so, have these repairs inspected by a marine electrical professional at the earliest convenience.

As part of our "Boating Community Service Program", if I'm walking through a yard on other business, and someone asks me to look at something, 15 minutes is free.

If I can't ascertain it is safe and reliable within 15 minutes (which usually means it isn't), I recommend a thorough electrical system inspection (at my normal hourly rate). If they decline, they only have themselves to blame.


I agree with what you say, nonetheless i believe that 72% of people make up their own statistics

Happy Days Sailing
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Old 16-04-2018, 13:28   #60
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Re: Buyer Beware, Not a fair eBay seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyrj33 View Post
Rod;
A true professional would either offer a better explanation or admit to making a mistake.
V volts
R resistance
I current
P power

V=R*I
P= V*I = I(2)*R

1 amp x 120 volts will supply 10 times the power as 1 amp x 12 volts.
No mistake.

My statements were 100% accurate.

Your statements above are also accurate except that...

i) E = Electro-motive force in Volts,

and more importantly that...

ii) P = E*I = I^2/R

I digress, these level of details are not necessary to make the point that...

Both 120 Vac and 12 Vdc electrical system wiring faults can and do burn boats and hurt people, and that it is not safe for those who are insufficiently knowledgeable or skilled, to mess with either.
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