AGM Battery Equalization

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Gill’s do to, and they have weak cases and only rollover valves I’m their caps.

The point is though unless I was told an untruth, the Lifeline gets the same pieces parts as does the Concorde.
They are different colors though, for whatever reason.

I also believe this is true and it makes sense from a manufacturing point of view.

[Paul L]

When my Northstar AGMs failed after 1 year the factory gave us an equalisation routine. Ran it twice with no improvement.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I'm happy to give you my hard won hands on experience as "answers" to your questions but I ain't interested in doing the searching of data for you.

Sometimes you gotta stand on your own two feet and get your fingers onto the keyboard. There are a couple of good search engines on the internet these days and you are smart enough to use them. You are also smart enough to ask the right questions.


If this is a silly comment and if I'm a troll, so be it.

It isn't for me me. So just keep your unsupported whatever

[cal40john]

I called Odyssey some years back asking if their batteries can be equalized. The tech said if your battery isn't performing as needed, go ahead and try. You're about to replace the battery anyway, so it might help, but it might not, and could make it worse.

[CarlF]

I tried Lifelines and they lasted 3.5 years before being down 60%. I followed all of the procedures (never below 50%, frequent 100% charges, etc.) but I only did the conditioning twice even though some recommend it once a month.

While I don't doubt that the Lifelines are better quality than most AGM's, AGM chemistry seems poorly suited for cruisers who spend many nights at anchor instead of plugged in at a marina.

The problem with the conditioning is you really need to set aside a day a month when you are plugged in at a marina. You need 8 hours at 15.5v. And during the conditioning, you have to babysit the process to be sure the voltage and amps are in range.

I just wasn't willing to take on this monthly chore just to get a little longer battery life.

I replaced the batteries with Firefly's which don't require conditioning. After three years they are still testing at over 100% rated capacity.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by cal40john

I called Odyssey some years back asking if their batteries can be equalized. The tech said if your battery isn't performing as needed, go ahead and try. You're about to replace the battery anyway, so it might help, but it might not, and could make it worse.

And did you?

I have done a couple of Odysseys and from memory some stayed the same and some improved.I don't recall the numbers but for me, an improvement was 10+% increase in capacity.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I tried Lifelines and they lasted 3.5 years before being down 60%. I followed all of the procedures (never below 50%, frequent 100% charges, etc.) but I only did the conditioning twice even though some recommend it once a month.

While I don't doubt that the Lifelines are better quality than most AGM's, AGM chemistry seems poorly suited for cruisers who spend many nights at anchor instead of plugged in at a marina.
.

We have cheap Chinese TBB brand agm, 220ah x 8.
3.5 years in use, never been in a marina, seem to be working as well as the day we got them.

[john61ct]

Have not read the thread.

Yes of course Lifeline details their equalization specs in their documentation, easily found in a few seconds on Google.

Since the other (quality deep cycling) AGM makers stopped advising true equalization

meaning higher voltage protocols

they have published "conditioning" procedures that are touted as recovering capacity from PSOC abuse

But afaic of limited use, and don't count as equalizing.

GIYF to learn the specifics for a given vendor, or as with the 0.005C thread, just contact their excellent tech support staff, who will give much more information - and no less canonical - than what is published in writing.

[john61ct]

And yes FLA will last longer and cost less per Ah, both per-year and up front.

AGM does have advantages for some use cases that make the higher cost / shorter life worth while.

But of course OT here.

Originally Posted by Simi 60

We have cheap Chinese TBB brand agm, 220ah x 8.

3.5 years in use, never been in a marina, seem to be working as well as the day we got them.

Not sure of your point, that is nothing. Even 5 years and accurately benchmarking State of Health at above 80% would not mean that much if average DoD is shallow, even a fraudulently labeled Wally world special may be able to do that.

[john61ct]

http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-cont...cal-Manual.pdf

Where they use the term "conditioning" for their higher-voltage protocol.


Best to go to "the horse's mouth" and give Concorde / Lifeline a call; if you can't get through to Dave V, ask for Dave or Justin Godber

Besides phoning +1 909 599-7816, they have a contact form here:*http://lifelinebatteries.com/contact-us/

"Feel free to contact us anytime and talk to a real person. We have a full technical support staff here Monday through Friday from 7:30 am to 4:00 pm."

From http://lifelinebatteries.com/2015/10...agm-batteries/ (probably written by Dave):

"Your equalizing routine will depend on a lot of factors. We are here to help you custom design a custom equalizing routine based on your application and habits to make your batteries last as long as possible."

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by john61ct

.

Not sure of your point, that is nothing. .

Try reading the post I quoted

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Try reading the post I quoted

I did, and addressed that issue right there

> yes FLA will last longer and cost less per Ah than AGM, both per-year and up front.

> but AGM does have advantages **for some use cases** that make the higher cost and shorter life worthwhile.

But of course that is OT here.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

2 - Do other AGM manufacturers acturally say that their batteries can NOT be equalized? Or is it that they just don't say they can?
3 - What's the physical difference in construction between the various AGM batteries of same size?

Please provide links and not just hearsay.

Seems that given how many people have agms someone would have learned the above while making their decision.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by CarlF

While I don't doubt that the Lifelines are better quality than most AGM's, AGM chemistry seems poorly suited for cruisers who spend many nights at anchor instead of plugged in at a marina.

Not all cruisers do that. For those who don't, AGMs may be an OK choice; depends.

For SB1: If it helps, we have Odysseys, too, and in a quick keyword search their technical manual, counterpart to the Lifeline link posted above, it doesn't address the concept of equalization. Nor have I tried to do so over 10-12 years of each bank's lifetime... nor has it seemed like I would need to.

(We now have one bank of Lifelines, couple years now, haven't tried to equalize that, either. And FWIW, ability to equalize or not wasn't a criterion for our choice of batteries.)

Can't really speak to construction, especially case and so forth... but what A64 said about Lifelines sounds likely given the Concorde affiliation. Odysseys are a "thin plate" design, likely not at all the same cell construction. Ask Lifeline? (Justin is very responsive.) Ask Odyssey?

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

I found that Trojan specifically says not to equalize agm and cells. Still no one has said wherher others address it at other than Lifeline.

A related question - wouldn't Agm and gel batteries sulfate just like a fla battery? Nothing about the chemical between acid and lead has change, only the carrier for the acid. Or has it