Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-02-2020, 09:47   #106
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 2,656
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
I'm sure there are plenty of things in the world that are not compliant with the US FCC.

Does the rest of the world care?
No particular reason the rest of the world should care. However, the OP has said the manual for the product proclaims compliance with FCC and Industry Canada requirements.

The compliance statement in the manual is about FCC Part 15, which covers "unintentional radiators". A radio transmitter, by definition, is an "intentional radiator". Part 47 is the relevant compliance for intentional radiators. I can quote the entire manual section on part 47 compliance - here it is "".

The manual also says it complies with Industry Canada ICES-0003, which is very similar to Part 15. Industry Canada says:

Quote:
Broadcasting equipment is subject to the requirements of the applicable Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada Broadcasting Equipment Technical Standards (BETS), and may also be subject to this standard (ICES‑003) if it is capable of functioning as an ITE device. In both cases, the labelling requirements of the applicable BETS apply, rather than the labelling requirements in ICES‑003.
Again, with regard to BETS compliance the manual says "". Just as an example, under IC an intentional radiator is required to have some statement like this in the manual:

Quote:
INDUSTRY CANADA WARNING: To satisfy RF exposure requirements for mobile transmitting devices, a separation distance of 1 metre or more should be maintained between the antenna of this device and persons during device operation. To ensure compliance, operations at closer than this distance is not recommended.

The antenna used for this transmitter must not be co-located in conjunction with any other antenna or transmitter.

This device has been designed to operate with an antenna having a maximum gain of 3dBi. Antennas having a gain greater than 3dBi are strictly prohibited for use with this device. The required antenna impedance is 50 ohms.

To reduce potential radio interference to other users, the antenna type and its gain should be chosen that the equivalent isotropically radiated power (EIRP) is not more than that required for successful communication.
I hope the OP/purchaser is pleasantly surprised to find that the device is dutifully tested and registered and that both the FCC and IC websites are just woefully behind with regard to showing the approvals. Somehow I doubt it as I would fully expect the manufacturer to put those kinds of approvals in the manual.
__________________

Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 10:35   #107
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,500
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

It's clear from some of the posts that some still don't "get" AIS.

The primary benefit of AIS is that two vessels on intersecting courses can more easily determine if the CPA is small enough that a risk of collision exists and the give-way vessel can slightly change course while still miles away. Without AIS this is very hard to determine with any precision from a small boat (even with MARPA) until you are within about 2 miles and even then you aren't quite sure how much you should change course.

While we can all complain about the over-reliance on AIS (instead of radar or eye-ball), this over-reliance does - in fact - exist on vessels both large and small. It's foolish to pretend it doesn't.

So it doesn't really matter to me that some boats don't use AIS. For those that do, I want to be visible to them so they know to stand-on or give-way as appropriate (although with a large commercial vessel offshore, I will usually hail on VHF at 5NM+ and offer to change my course to pass astern).

I also consider captains that transmit AIS to be practicing good seamanship and courtesy as it makes it much easier for me to determine if I need to change course as the give-way vessel (I like a minimum CPA of 1NM offshore).

And to go back to the thread, I am considering upgrading to SOTDMA B+ because in waters crowded with many commercial vessels all using AIS as their primary anti-collisions system (such as NYC, Baltimore, and Charleston) - I'd like the ships to see more frequent updating of my position. 3 minutes can be a long time.
__________________

CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 13:39   #108
Registered User
 
Cpt Pat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Half Moon Bay, CA, USA
Boat: 1963 Pearson Ariel, Hull 75
Posts: 1,060
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnut40 View Post
For VHF work, I prefer my 5/8 wave Motorola Spectrum which I have an extra. You used to see them on every cop car before they went to 800 mhz.
Yes but, do cop cars heel? On a monohull, stick with 1/2 wave antennas (radiation pattern shown in yellow below). The vertical directivity of a 5/8 wave antenna (red or white below) only causes loss at any appreciable degree of heel.

The "gain" (directivity) of a 5/8th wave antenna is derived by compressing the vertical radiation, which becomes detrimental when the antenna is anything but perfectly vertical. (This also applies to 5/8 wave HF backstay antennas. The backstay isn't vertical. Who're you talking to: the moon?)

And if you have a motor boat or multihull, don't be "stylish" and tilt a high gain antenna aft -- unless you want your best signal sent to satellites ahead and submarines astern.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	antenna.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	209231  
Attached Images
 
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 14:03   #109
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 2,540
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
It should care. The FCC does not tolerate junk kindly and they are a very reasonable bunch of engineers. There are three reasons a company will avoid seeking FCC approval.

1) they know the equipment will not meet the standards.

2) they cannot afford to do the proper testing and file the data.

3) they are scammers who have no issue selling illegal radios in the U.S. so they avoid the cost of filing.

Any of these is a disqualifying attribute in my opinion.

The US market is too rich and large for any “real” company to just decide to avoid it altogether.
Yeah, nah.
Plenty of businesses make stuff without a care for the US market.
Did you ever think that maybe they are flat out keeping up with supply in their own patch of the world?
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 14:08   #110
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Craig..... Thanks for the comment.... ;-) It will interface by NMEA 0183 or 2000 by wire as well as act as a wifi data source for your wireless devices or an access point. They have covered pretty much all scenarios with this unit.

Dsanduril, Thanks for dissecting the info from the IC website. I take it that they don't want a "gain" antenna used so I'll just use a 1/4 wave.... that's easy.
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-02-2020, 14:15   #111
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Dsanduril, did you happen to uncover what:

"This device complies with Industry Canada Licence -exempt RSS standards(s)"

means by any chance??
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 10:43   #112
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay
Posts: 217
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

I use one of these from Milltech Marine for $420. They work great and you get great support. I have the the one with the integrated splitter which is a bit more expensive, been in use for several years and put close to two thousand miles on it along the California coast.

NMEA 2000 works great, range is pretty good, I also use the NMEA 0183 to feed GPS and AIS into my VHF (SH GX2000). I don't think the risk is worth $70, but that is my humble opinion.
Tenedos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 14:08   #113
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenedos View Post
I use one of these from Milltech Marine for $420. They work great and you get great support. I have the the one with the integrated splitter which is a bit more expensive, been in use for several years and put close to two thousand miles on it along the California coast.

NMEA 2000 works great, range is pretty good, I also use the NMEA 0183 to feed GPS and AIS into my VHF (SH GX2000). I don't think the risk is worth $70, but that is my humble opinion.

Does it have wifi integration to feed data to phones and tablets? I've not seen much short of the 5000 that has it all and they are north of $1000
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 14:10   #114
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

And that unit is Class B with CSTDMA and 2 watts, NOT Class B+ with SOTDMA and 5 watts..... again.... APPLES looking to be ORANGES!!
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:04   #115
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 2,656
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnut40 View Post
Dsanduril, did you happen to uncover what:

"This device complies with Industry Canada Licence -exempt RSS standards(s)"

means by any chance??
I think it means they are trying to claim an exemption under RSS-Gen, Section 2.6.2:

Quote:
2.6.2 Category II equipment
In the scope of this RSS, Category II equipment consists of radio apparatus that are exempt from certification (i.e. that do not require a TAC or a certificate issued by a CB). The manufacturer, importer and/or distributor shall, however, ensure that Category II equipment complies with all of ISED’s applicable procedures and standards. The test report shall be retained for as long as the model is manufactured, imported, distributed, sold, offered for sale and/or leased in Canada. The test report shall be made available to ISED upon request.
However, AIS transponders are defined in RSS-182, Section 2 of which says:
Quote:
2. General
Equipment certified under this standard is classified as Category I equipment and a technical acceptance certificate (TAC), issued by the Certification and Engineering Bureau of Industry Canada, or a certificate issued by a certification body (CB), is required.
The way I read it an AIS transponder is Category I and therefore can't be exempt. But I am certainly not exceedingly familiar with IC and their regulations.
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:20   #116
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

IC does regularly accept the testing results of the 6 or 8 testing labs around the world. They Can test in house but it seems they trust external labs.
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:49   #117
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay
Posts: 217
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnut40 View Post
Does it have wifi integration to feed data to phones and tablets? I've not seen much short of the 5000 that has it all and they are north of $1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnut40 View Post
And that unit is Class B with CSTDMA and 2 watts, NOT Class B+ with SOTDMA and 5 watts..... again.... APPLES looking to be ORANGES!!
I personally don't prefer units with WiFi. It is easy to add WiFi support with a Raspberry Pi or equivalent for $50 with a lot of additional benefits.

That being said, this unit doesn't have WiFi, but has WiFi versions.

For SOTDMA, AMEC is for $590, em-trak is for $539. Neither of these have WiFi. If you want WiFi, AMEC is $689. I am not affiliated with Milltech, I just had good experience with them and their units. They are professional. I appreciate the price point may be higher than what you are looking at, but certainly not $1000.
Tenedos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:52   #118
Registered User
 
flyingnut40's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cobourg, Ontario,Canada
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 240
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

And it STILL is not B+..... smile.....
__________________
Live your life with passion, even if it kills you, because something is going to kill you anyways. Webb Chilies
flyingnut40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:54   #119
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay
Posts: 217
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingnut40 View Post
And it STILL is not B+..... smile.....
I don't know what your definition of B+ is but if you mean 5W SOTDMA, both fit that very well.
Tenedos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-02-2020, 15:59   #120
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 4
Re: New price point for AIS class B+

Looks really cool. Keep us posted
__________________

Melavi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ais, grass, price

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 BATTERIES CLASS 27 CLASS 24? dick auge Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 27-02-2018 18:18
New Price Point for 2000 Gemini 105MC!! socaldmax Multihull Sailboats 9 09-06-2015 17:32
Point No Point Lighthouse For Sale TaoJones Atlantic & the Caribbean 10 25-11-2007 08:14

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:32.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.