Nav system upgrade time

[AJ-SeaChange]

Hi, we're hoping you can help out with your thoughts and suggestions for upgrading/replacing our nav/instruments system.

We don't have unlimited funds to throw at this job, but we do want to have a system that's good quality. We don't race, just cruise.

We're full time liveaboards on a 46ft Jeanneau Sun Odyssey currently in Greece.

Here's what we currently have in the mix.

The ancient Type 300 central processor.

At the helm, a Raymarine E80 chart plotter, a Garmin GMI 10 mutli display, a Raymarine ST6002 autopilot control head.

An AIS Em-Trak B100 Class B transceiver.

Looking forward to your replies, thanks Barry & Aannsha.

[Pete7]

Barry and Annasha, been following your trials on YT. Which drive ram do you have?

Pete

[HeinSdL]

I use this one:


https://www.easyais.com/en/products/...n2k-wifi-a158/


together with the iNavX app on ipad and iPhone.


The A158 which I have has more features (antenna splitter, wifi, built in GPS) making it a bit more pricy, but then you are done with a complete system. I like it...


(edit: does not cover the autopilot, this would be just the navigation part...)

[AJ-SeaChange]

Hi Pete, I'm not sure about the autopilot drive mechanism. It would entail emptying a big locker and visually inspecting it.



Not something I want to do today at anchor in 30 knots.


I'll post here when I have that info.

[Pete7]

I guess the options are something like the Raymarine Evo 200 system or the equivalent from Garmin, depends what information the Garmin gives you if you want to continue with more Garmin or stay with RM.

https://hudsonmarine.co.uk/products/...control-t70155

Have to say the Raymarine Evo set up with a Gyro compass is streets ahead of the old fluxgate compass system.

Ryan and Sophie did a review and are about to fit a RM system on YT. He is a bit of a techie with interests in LifePo4 so be interesting to see how he gets on with the Gyro compass but his explanation of the difference compared to a fluxgate is simple and informative. We have had the smaller Evo100 for 2 years now and think its the dogs danglies. Review here on CF of the wheel pilot version, but the under deck system is similar. RM Seatalk NG will talk with the C80 if you want with a £100 converter.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ew-136885.html

The bits left over less the ST6002 which is probably toast are worth selling as there is a good second hand market in the Spring for older RM kit.

Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JicXTTg5xc&t=0s

[AJ-SeaChange]

That's great info Pete.


We like the idea of gyro compass as we still have not been able to locate our fluxgate compass even after nearly 2 years of living on board.

[Pete7]

Hmm, add a metal detector to the list of stuff needed

What I did like with the newer networks like SeaTalkNg or DeviceNet (NMEA2000) is they are plug and play. No bare wires, it's plugs and sockets which seal and come apart again with ease. We started with the Evo100 and have just added a new chart plotter and VHF on the network by just extending it. Cables are a bit pricey but its childs play. Fired up the network and the chart plotter instantly saw the wheel pilot components and VHF. Software updates, well chuck a micro SD card in and press go or use the boats wifi which the chart plotters can connect to to download updates.

Position of Gyro important, see the review linked to earlier of the changes I made, which did improve things. Your picture shows a rudder reference unit wiring cable. Keep it in place, that is one less item to have to fit.

Pete

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by AJ-SeaChange

Hi, we're hoping you can help out with your thoughts and suggestions for upgrading/replacing our nav/instruments system.

Here's what we currently have in the mix.

The ancient Type 300 central processor.

At the helm, a Raymarine E80 chart plotter, a Garmin GMI 10 mutli display, a Raymarine ST6002 autopilot control head.

An AIS Em-Trak B100 Class B transceiver.

Depth sounder or radios, too?

What are you trying to solve? Something in there that doesn't work? Or...?

IOW, why do you want to replace anything?

-Chris

[Pete7]

I have been following their YT channel which is quite entertaining. However, they have had problems all summer with the ST6002 auto pilot controller and possibly the control box.

Pete

[a64pilot]

Two schools of thought with avionics / electronics.
One is to integrate everything, that is of course the current trend, it’s neat to be able to access and see everything on one instrument.
However it’s my opinion that if you do this, do it by integrating individual components, ones that will work when or if the network and or it’s controller goes down, and have rudimentary back-ups for critical components.

I love Garmin equipment, used to be a factory reseller of their avionics, they have an Employee’s discount that just can’t be beaten.
However if you go Garmin, be prepared to face the fact that sooner than you would expect you’ll find your system is obsolete and no longer supported, your only option is EBay or replace.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Two schools of thought with avionics / electronics.
One is to integrate everything, that is of course the current trend, it’s neat to be able to access and see everything on one instrument.

I have a 'philosophical' question about this. Why is it so important to integrate everything? On my boat I have a couple of stand alone systems which are easy to understand and do everything that needs to be done to get the boat from A to B in a safe and comfortable manner. I don't need to have these systems talking to each other right?

Listing my systems:
- autopilot, uses no input from any other system
- sailing instruments, ditto
- navigation instruments, I dont have much, see earlier post
- battery/tank monitoring system, again, it works in isolation

I certainly would not want a screen of some sort with all the data at my finger tips. I already have that at work (email, company intranet + IT tools, internet) and quite frankly, that bores me. Happy to be away from it all now and then, on my boat.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I have a 'philosophical' question about this. Why is it so important to integrate everything? On my boat I have a couple of stand alone systems which are easy to understand and do everything that needs to be done to get the boat from A to B in a safe and comfortable manner. I don't need to have these systems talking to each other right?

Listing my systems:
- autopilot, uses no input from any other system

I expect networking is more useful for some than for others... and some "specific networking" might be more useful than "networking in general."

Does your AP get time/position data from GPS? Can you create waypoints and routes and so forth in advance, then tell your AP to go there or follow a route?

-Chris

[MJH]

Originally Posted by AJ-SeaChange

Hi, we're hoping you can help out with your thoughts and suggestions for upgrading/replacing our nav/instruments system.

We don't have unlimited funds to throw at this job, but we do want to have a system that's good quality. We don't race, just cruise.

We're full time liveaboards on a 46ft Jeanneau Sun Odyssey currently in Greece.

Here's what we currently have in the mix.

Attachment 200337 The ancient Type 300 central processor.

At the helm, a Raymarine E80 chart plotter, a Garmin GMI 10 mutli display, a Raymarine ST6002 autopilot control head.

An AIS Em-Trak B100 Class B transceiver.

Looking forward to your replies, thanks Barry & Aannsha.

You said one important thing, you have limited fund$. You don't say what is NOT working only that it is ancient....but does it work? It sounds like you may need to get your boat in operating condition but that is a far cry from what you may desire with limited funds.

That said I would recommend upgrading to the next level of autopilot, a Raymarine S3G Smart Pilot (unit #E12092) core pack which you will have to find on the used market. There is a guy in Colorado that handles and repairs the out of warrantee models of Raymarine gear...I bought mine from him in 2016 to replace my Type 300 system...he even paid me $100 plus shipping for my old Type 300 unit which wasn't working...price was reasonable. There are also S3G units on eBay at times.

If you go beyond the S3G (X-30, EV-400) you will also have to upgrade the control head as well for full functionability. Don't buy the S3, it is not gyro.

Do you have a ST6002 or ST6002+ control head...there is a difference? If it is not a PLUS unit you will need to upgrade to one (ST6001+, ST7001+, ST8001+, or the 6/7/80002+ series again available on the used market for full functionability.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I have a 'philosophical' question about this. Why is it so important to integrate everything? On my boat I have a couple of stand alone systems which are easy to understand and do everything that needs to be done to get the boat from A to B in a safe and comfortable manner. I don't need to have these systems talking to each other right?



Listing my systems:

- autopilot, uses no input from any other system

- sailing instruments, ditto

- navigation instruments, I dont have much, see earlier post

- battery/tank monitoring system, again, it works in isolation



I certainly would not want a screen of some sort with all the data at my finger tips. I already have that at work (email, company intranet + IT tools, internet) and quite frankly, that bores me. Happy to be away from it all now and then, on my boat.

Personally I don’t think you have to of course, however it is “neat” to be able to touch the plotter and make a DSC call to another vessel, I guess. I’ve never done it myself but it is neat. I do like having depth and wind data displayed on the plotter as well as AIS data, in my case it’s all just repeated to the plotter, they all have their individual displays too.
Last boat I had nearly every conceivable engine system monitored and displayed on the plotter, boost pressure, water cooling temp and pressure, oil temp and pressure of course RPM, fuel level, consumption, range remaining, due to destination etc.
All picked off of the Mux if you will. Without that all I had was a warning horn that said something was wrong with the engine, so having all that was nice.

All I’m saying is don’t fall into the trap of the plotter say being required to operate all the other gear, cause what is the backup if the plotter breaks?
Often military aircraft, all systems are operated and programmed through the “MPD” on the instrument panel, lose it and you can’t even change radio frequencies etc. in that instance there is usually at least one back up screen, so I guess if your plotter controls everything, make sure you have more than one plotter and things can be controlled from either one.

I don’t know if Marine systems have gone that way yet, but I suspect they will, not having multiple displays and input panels saves a bunch of money manufacturing wise.

Back in the old days you stacked individual components to “make” a stereo, it cost lots of extra money for each component to have its own power supply etc. lots of money was saved when the components began to be placed into one box.

For instance my last two Radars used the plotter as a display screen, my first one had its own display. So now of course if I lose my plotter, I’ve lost the Radar too.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AJ-SeaChange

Hi, we're hoping you can help out with your thoughts and suggestions for upgrading/replacing our nav/instruments system.

We don't have unlimited funds to throw at this job, but we do want to have a system that's good quality. We don't race, just cruise.

We're full time liveaboards on a 46ft Jeanneau Sun Odyssey currently in Greece.

Here's what we currently have in the mix.

Attachment 200337 The ancient Type 300 central processor.

At the helm, a Raymarine E80 chart plotter, a Garmin GMI 10 mutli display, a Raymarine ST6002 autopilot control head.

An AIS Em-Trak B100 Class B transceiver.

Looking forward to your replies, thanks Barry & Aannsha.

It would really help to know what you want to have (what needs replacing and what additional functionality you need)

You mention "nav" which implies chart plotter or equivalent.

"instruments" to me means sailing instruments (wind and speed).

Somewhere in this mix are autopilot and AIS.

I am somewhat concerned that in two years you have not found your fluxgate compass and you don't know what autopilot ram you have (consider this: if it is buried such that you can't get at it, how would you try to fix it if it failed at sea in rough weather?) This boat is your home and your transportation at sea, you should get to know it inside and out, and how to fix things, etc. Get to it.