Mac vs PC in marine environment

[sailor4life7777]

Hi guys, how long do macs and PCs last in a marine environment onboard a cruising boat? I would imagine given the build quality of macs that they would last much longer than PCS in a marine environment, but does anyone have real world experience with the 2?

[Galumay]

Honestly, inside a cruising boat i would expect similar outcomes to on land. Macs tend to last longer due to the better hardware & design, compared to run of the mill PC's. There are high spec PC's, especially some of the laptops, that are designed for things like work outside in mine sites etc and they will take a hell of a beating! You also have to consider cost, a cheap windows laptop might not last nearly as long as an expensive, rugged one, or a Mac, but you can buy 3 or 4 for the same price!

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by Galumay

Honestly, inside a cruising boat i would expect similar outcomes to on land. Macs tend to last longer due to the better hardware & design, compared to run of the mill PC's. There are high spec PC's, especially some of the laptops, that are designed for things like work outside in mine sites etc and they will take a hell of a beating! You also have to consider cost, a cheap windows laptop might not last nearly as long as an expensive, rugged one, or a Mac, but you can buy 3 or 4 for the same price!

Hmm. Let’s compare apples with apples (bad pun). A $1,500 windows laptop will last just as long as a $1,500 MacBook. They are using virtually the same components. There is no Apple magic at play.

A cheap $300 laptop is a different matter but as you say, you can go through 3 or 4 of these and still come out cheaper than a $1,500 anything.

[goboatingnow]

For basic IT work on board , I have a €250 windows laptop ,still working fine after 3 years.

For navigation computing , if I wanted windows , I’d build my own using mini ITX formats , or from industrial formats ( PCe) etc. I’d carry spares

As an owner of three Macs at home Apple is way overpriced these days. My latest home build is a screamer mini ITX build with dual HD displays. I simply can’t stomach the cost /performance of apple these days.

[Dockhead]

I've never had any problems with premature death of computers on board other than non-rugged tablets which got smashed when they fell over in a lively seaway. Lost an IPad that way, and a Sony Xperia tablet. Now I used ruggedized tablets; currently a Samsung Tab Active.

I do main navigation and passage planning tasks on OpenCPN connected to my regular nav network by Ethernet. I have used various laptops for that over the years, but finally settled on minicomputers mounted out of sight behind nav table, connected to a monitor above the nav table.

Works great. I'm currently using a extremely tiny fanless minicomputer from GMKTec called a "NUCBox", which has a 10nm 4-core Jasper Lake CPU which is amazingly powerful -- equal to Core i7's of a few generations ago, it seems to me. Yet it only uses 6 watts of power. It's only 72mmx72mmx45mm (less than 3" x 3" x 2") so like half or less the volume of previous minicomputers I have used.

Linux would be the optimum OS for serious navigation use, but this unit runs so well on Windows 11 I haven't bothered to change it.

Downside of this one compared to previous minicomputers I've had on board is that you can't add a second SSD drive. But mine has 256GB which is proving to be quite adequate even with my big collection of cartography. You can add a portable hard drive connected by USB is need mass storage for media or whatever.

Like previous minicomputers I've had, this one has dual HDMI connections, and I have one connected to the nav table monitor and the other to a 32" monitor on the bulkhead. It's great being able to see the chart and other voyage data from anywhere in the salon.

Not using a laptop has the additional benefit that the nav table is free for paper charts, notes, plotting sheets, or whatever other work you have to do.

A minicomputer hidden inside cabinetry is also far less vulnerable to damage in rough seas, or water damage. I lost an expensive work laptop some years ago in a knockdown in the North Sea, which I had been foolishly using for navigation.

[OldManMirage]

I am looking at the newer "mini-pc's" as an onboard computer. Fewer moving parts with SSD drives. I'm really just looking for a central way to store entertainment such as movies and music. With a 1TB drive you have an awful lot of space for that. Add a decent monitor and you're good to go.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OldManMirage

I am looking at the newer "mini-pc's" as an onboard computer. Fewer moving parts with SSD drives. I'm really just looking for a central way to store entertainment such as movies and music. With a 1TB drive you have an awful lot of space for that. Add a decent monitor and you're good to go.

And no fan is important, because it's less power draw and potentially salty air is not drawn through the unit.


I forgot to mention power supply -- my new minicomputer uses a PD power supply making organizing a DC powered power supply a snap.



What concerns media storage, much cheaper than a big SSD drive is to put the media on a portable hard drive. You can hook that up by USB.


I have multiple TB of media on board and not feasible to store on the computer itself.


Alternatively, you can set up a media server on the boat network so you can access the media library from different devices.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by sailor4life7777

Hi guys, how long do macs and PCs last in a marine environment onboard a cruising boat? I would imagine given the build quality of macs that they would last much longer than PCS in a marine environment, but does anyone have real world experience with the 2?

Can't imagine much difference.

At the risk of jinxing ourselves... our ship's laptop -- a decent Dell PC -- is from March 2010, now running Win10.

-Chris

[Rumrace]

Good old batteries. All batteries made in China stink. Even the panisonic batteries made in China stink. Mac and PC have equal sources of junk. The lack of a spinning harddrive on the Mac darn clever but the Mac typically is more heat sensitive.
An IPAD or phone will overheat in the sun even faster in a water proof case. Not sure about Android pads.
I have a raspberry pi in the boat a permanent fixture so Linux. If it’s been years since you’ve seen Linux your in for a shock.
The Raspberry pi 4 has a real issue with heat but easily solved with a pocket of heat sinks a case and fan. The raspberry has survived two winters with one camera freezing the other one kept working.
I imagine if an open pc like a raspberry can survive 2 winters and hot humid summers should be easy for Toshiba or Apple to pass that.
I’m 3D printing my second navigation station iPad magnetic holder charger. The iPad handles entertainment can back up navigation., as well as talking to the Raspberry.
I’m only allowed to work at the boat when my wife doesn’t catch me so laptop stays home tbh.

[Jubilee39]

I have used a windows PC for about 20 years and never really had hardware problems. Upgraded through the years from ATX, mini ATX, and to more efficient power supplies. I am currently still using windows7 and open cpn with and have navigated from the Phillioines, SE Asia, through the Red Sea and Med to the Caribbean with this setup. I also run Navionics on a Samsung tablet for comparison of charting. Its been fairly simple to add various programs for remote monitoring etc as well as using it for entertainment.

[Mike OReilly]

I've always used Mac. I've never had any marine issues with them. But I doubt a PC would far any different.

Get what you want, and what works for you. Don't be stupid about exposing it to water and moist air. Either will be fine.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And no fan is important, because it's less power draw and potentially salty air is not drawn through the unit.


I forgot to mention power supply -- my new minicomputer uses a PD power supply making organizing a DC powered power supply a snap.



What concerns media storage, much cheaper than a big SSD drive is to put the media on a portable hard drive. You can hook that up by USB.


I have multiple TB of media on board and not feasible to store on the computer itself.


Alternatively, you can set up a media server on the boat network so you can access the media library from different devices.

Very hard these days to avoid forced cooling of the cpu. Clearly you can go to the extent of building a water cooled cpu but …..

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... As an owner of three Macs at home Apple is way overpriced these days...

Were they ever not?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Very hard these days to avoid forced cooling of the cpu. Clearly you can go to the extent of building a water cooled cpu but …..

Many of the Atom based CPU's can be passively cooled.

[PippaB]

A year ago I’d have said it didn’t matter, but the power/performance equations for the M1/M2 Apple Silicon change things, at least for me. Of course, then you have to live in the new ecosystem with a much smaller choice of native applications and workarounds to run the apps not designed for them.

A year ago the statement that they’re all the same components was true, not so much any more, and the engineering that went into that line of chips is impressive. We run a Pi 24/7 for general computing, partly for cost but largely for its 6W power draw. The M1 is getting into the realm where it could be run 24/7 with far more computing capabilties.