Mac vs PC in marine environment

[SV__Grace]

My wife and I have been cruising and working remotely on our laptops from our boat for 5 years now.

I have a mac, she has dell windows machine. Both have held up well for 5 years so far.

Both have SD hard drives, to which I credit their longevity, along with secure dry storage when not in use.

The biggest difference between the two is how often and how many hours my wife's windows machine is unusable due to windows updates. I keep my mac up to date and never have to leave it running for hours unusable while updating.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by PippaB

A year ago I’d have said it didn’t matter, but the power/performance equations for the M1/M2 Apple Silicon change things, at least for me. Of course, then you have to live in the new ecosystem with a much smaller choice of native applications and workarounds to run the apps not designed for them.

A year ago the statement that they’re all the same components was true, not so much any more, and the engineering that went into that line of chips is impressive. We run a Pi 24/7 for general computing, partly for cost but largely for its 6W power draw. The M1 is getting into the realm where it could be run 24/7 with far more computing capabilties.

Colour me sceptical but unless you are doing video editing (and a lot of it) or some other compute intensive rendering then the M1 is overkill for 99% of users. A basic laptop with 8gb and an SSD is more than sufficient.

I have this discussion once a week with the Mac-fan employees in my business and yet when do the usual and ask “why?” 7 times, they can’t seem to justify it.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by sailor4life7777

Hi guys, how long do macs and PCs last in a marine environment onboard a cruising boat? I would imagine given the build quality of macs that they would last much longer than PCS in a marine environment, but does anyone have real world experience with the 2?

Use whichever one you prefer but buy two of them. Keep both loaded with the same navigation program of choice and updated on your departure. Keep that backup in a waterproof container ready if the primary fails.

Good Luck.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MJH

Use whichever one you prefer but buy two of them. Keep both loaded with the same navigation program of choice and updated on your departure. Keep that backup in a waterproof container ready if the primary fails.

Good Luck.

A good way to do that is to keep your old computer as a backup when you retire it.


That's what I always do for my work computer.


For the boat computer I keep nav software and charts on my work laptop.


I certainly agree that a complete backup computer is a good idea.

[ThereAndBack]

I am a digital nomad that depends on laptops for my job. In the past 4 years, I've gone through 3 macbook pro computers.

The first had the hard drive die in some fatal way. The computer also had the infamous butterfly keys and suffered from double keystrokes. I ditched it in lieu of replacing the hard drive.

The second macbook pro died in a very scary way. One day it just froze. I felt it and it was very hot. I held the power button until it shut down and unplugged it, but it continued to be very hot. To the point it started smoking. I put it in the galley sink (which is made of stainless) and monitored it for a long long time. If it caught fire I was prepared to wrap in a fire blanket and launch over the side. Apparently the batteries malfunctioned. Ditched it.

The third macbook pro worked for about a year until I moved jobs and sent it back to the company.

My new job supplied me with a high end windows laptop (Lenovo X1). So far I've really liked the windows machine. It is fast and I've had no problems over the course of a year.

Regarding comments about mac vs pc updates. Mac updates happened less frequently but took a LOT longer when they did. Often interrupting work for an hour or more. Windows has updates pretty often but they're smaller and quicker. You're going to pay the piper sometime or another. When a windows update comes along, I go make coffee. When a mac update came along, I let my coworkers know I'd be back in a couple hours. Pick your poison.

So to answer the OP... I'm averaging 1 laptop per year, but then, maybe I've been unlucky.

Other data points, my gf is also a digital nomad and uses a macbook pro, has been going 2 years. We had a shipmate aboard for 3 years who used a macbook pro and as far as I know, it is still going strong.

[Rivatar]

Apple must have a perfect sine wave, not all inverters deliver perfect sines. First airbook lasted a couple of years only in salt air. Second one not much longer. Both were corroded inside, it’s the salt air. Mac mini is protected and fine after maybe 6 or 7 years, lapbook pro still going after two years.

[PippaB]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Colour me sceptical but unless you are doing video editing (and a lot of it) or some other compute intensive rendering then the M1 is overkill for 99% of users. A basic laptop with 8gb and an SSD is more than sufficient.

I have this discussion once a week with the Mac-fan employees in my business and yet when do the usual and ask “why?” 7 times, they can’t seem to justify it.

The “why” is the power use values in general computing use. I don’t really care much about the intense video editing, but look at any of the independent battery life tests for these units and there’s a significant difference in real power use in real computing situations. That makes a difference to me. We run our entire boat on about 1.8kWh/day, running my mid-range Dell/Intel laptop for five hours increases that by 16% (300Wh). If I could cut that by 50-70% that would be a big deal. Not enough (yet) for this cheapskate to go plunk down the $, but enough that I’m looking.

[stormalong]

I have been using small form factor PCs since 1998. The only failure I had was from a static discharge when reconnecting a cable. I knew it the moment it happened.

For the last few years I have been using an Intel NUC. Since I went to electronic charting I carry a spare one, ready to swap. Also carry a spare monitor, keyboard, mouse and four channel rs-232 to USB interface cable. I have had two monitors fail over the years.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

I have a mac, [wife] has dell windows machine. Both have held up well for 5 years so far.
...
The biggest difference between the two is how often and how many hours my wife's windows machine is unusable due to windows updates. I keep my mac up to date and never have to leave it running for hours unusable while updating.

I don't think any of my recent Windows 10 laptop updates have taken longer than an hour, but Windows updates can be deferred or scheduled anyways, so it is possible to have the updates run at end of day or overnight, and only when you're on shorepower and have a solid internet connection.

My Lenovo laptop has had 6 years of almost daily use, with no failures, but that's ashore and at home. One friend has a refurbished Panasonic Toughbook; if you're just doing basic PC stuff plus OpenCPN and don't need the latest and greatest laptop, this could be an option for the boat.

[Rumrace]

I was going to mention the new Mac chip but more about durability on boats.

I have no choice but to use a PC for several pieces of software and government sites for forms where Apple gets beat up unless running a crippling imitation windows program and then it times out. Sucks

My other thing 3D renderings have demanded some expensive software from AutoCAD. AutoCAD and Mac have always had conflict but their Fusion 360 works with the new Apple processor. My windows drawing machine is at its max 16G and I crashed it drawing an O scale train kit. I could handle about 80% of the parts and the software became less fluid. I’m looking at replacing my hobby pc and looking at new Mac processor. The processor in my 3D printers are called Rambos they were 8 bit most are. The new one is 32 bit and only a Linux keeps up with it.
A printer PC is in a crazy environment in an enclosed printer. The heated bed warm up the whole case Printing poly carb or ASA I have heat bead at 110c and nozzle at 260c. Somehow the Rambo survives. I’ve added heat sinks. I moved the 2x 120V transformer outside the case. A cooling fan is not an option cause a breeze to break the print. I have a low volume 80mm fan hepa filter way worse than a boat for sure. No pc would survive in there.

[s/v Jedi]

Windows machines have no place on a cruising sailboat because they need a link to M$ to leak all your data and fix their problems continuously. The OS alone disqualifies them unless something better is installed, like Linux.

Modern laptops that have the memory, as well as SSD soldered onto the logic board and have a conformal coating should be reliable enough, although some are prone to failures due to design mistakes. NorthRidgeFix YouTube channel is a good source to find out which the problematic ones are.

That said, the new Apple MacBooks are so far ahead that choosing a different path is shear madness, if not sadomasochistic

[jmschmidt]

I live on the beach in Hawaii 150 yards from the ocean. Salt air laden trail winds blow 90% of the time. My screen doors take a beating but not our two desktop computers or three iPads or the one laptop.

We leave the desktops on all the time to run at a steady temperature. This drives out all the moisture. I open them up after every few years and they look great, little or no corrosion.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A good way to do that is to keep your old computer as a backup when you retire it.


That's what I always do for my work computer.


For the boat computer I keep nav software and charts on my work laptop.


I certainly agree that a complete backup computer is a good idea.

Keeping an old computer is fine it it can be updated to the same version as your currently using in your main computer. However having different versions between backup computers is problematic

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Windows machines have no place on a cruising sailboat because they need a link to M$ to leak all your data and fix their problems continuously. The OS alone disqualifies them unless something better is installed, like Linux.

Modern laptops that have the memory, as well as SSD soldered onto the logic board and have a conformal coating should be reliable enough, although some are prone to failures due to design mistakes. NorthRidgeFix YouTube channel is a good source to find out which the problematic ones are.

That said, the new Apple MacBooks are so far ahead that choosing a different path is shear madness, if not sadomasochistic

And you think Apple aren't leaking data , dream on

[Free2Sail]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

And you think Apple aren't leaking data , dream on

I know someone who knows someone who works for Apple munging user data. In their words, "Apple sees EVERYTHING" (their emphasis).

I despise Apple and MS, for different reasons. The best solution comes from the Land of Finns, but that's not what OP asked about. I guess some ruggerized PC laptop running Linux would be best; not sure how Linux plays with charting software - I guess you could run it in Windows emulation mode.

WM may be offering a $15K laptop for the "harsh marine environment" soon.