Fiber optic for boat data networks

[mgrouch]

Why fiber optic cabling is not a choice for boat data networks? Thin cable, isolated, great bandwidth, no heating issue, less fire hazard.
Seems could have been good choice

[rslifkin]

Generally fiber equipment has been more expensive. And unless you use armored cables (more cost), the cables are not particularly hard to damage.

I don't see a reason why it couldn't be done, but I think it just didn't make sense at the time many of the currently in-use standards were designed.

[Zanshin]

And sailors tend not to be "early adopters" either. I'd like to see more CAN-BUS on boats to save on copper wiring, but so far only one manufacturer, Hallberg Rassy, has implemented it in a production boat.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

And sailors tend not to be "early adopters" either. I'd like to see more CAN-BUS on boats to save on copper wiring, but so far only one manufacturer, Hallberg Rassy, has implemented it in a production boat.

NMEA 2000 IS a Can-bus network, so pretty much every boat being built today has a can-bus network.

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

NMEA 2000 IS a Can-bus network, so pretty much every boat being built today has a can-bus network.

I'll be more specific - a CAN-BUS network for power supply applications, not for monitoring. So far only Hallberg Rassy has done this. It potentially saves a huge amount of cost for cabling and weight.

[mgrouch]

I’m reading that fiber optics can be embedded into hull fiberglass material when hull is made.

And then it can also be used to measure stress and predict hull failures.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by mgrouch

I’m reading that fiber optics can be embedded into hull fiberglass material when hull is made.

And then it can also be used to measure stress and predict hull failures.

Stress gauges would be more practical and repeatable

[jo_sail]

Especially lightning is no problem for s fibre network. It sould be easy with the right bus technology. Optical fibres are used to connect sensors kn meteorological stations and towers. Perhaps this is a area to look for solutions also for yachts…

[toolbar]

I can fix a "copper" boat data network with stuff I already have on board. At the required data rates fixing stuff is possible with super-basic material and tools (or none at all, you could splice NMEA2k and slow ethernet with a sailing knive, and twisting the single leads together).

In our company's datacenter fiber optic has a place, but not on my boat.

Paul

[PUDDLE JUMPER II]

Originally Posted by toolbar

I can fix a "copper" boat data network with stuff I already have on board. At the required data rates fixing stuff is possible with super-basic material and tools (or none at all, you could splice NMEA2k and slow ethernet with a sailing knive, and twisting the single leads together).



In our company's datacenter fiber optic has a place, but not on my boat.



Paul

As an IT Nerd-- 100% agree...

[team karst]

Originally Posted by jo_sail

Especially lightning is no problem for s fibre network. It sould be easy with the right bus technology. Optical fibres are used to connect sensors kn meteorological stations and towers. Perhaps this is a area to look for solutions also for yachts…

Agree. Data WILL be optical on next generation devices. Still leaves the power issue tho.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by mgrouch

Why fiber optic cabling is not a choice for boat data networks? Thin cable, isolated, great bandwidth, no heating issue, less fire hazard.
Seems could have been good choice

For communications (fiber can't do power):
- copper is thin.
- copper has enough bandwidth
- no heating issues
- no fire issues.

Plus, any reasonably handy owner can splice copper. Having learned (but not practiced) fiber splicing, it's beyond your average owner to stock the materials and have the ability to do a splice.

So what other potential benefits do you see?

[team karst]

Hmmm, how many nmea2k users are splicing copper? I submit exceedingly few.
Fiber will be bought in premade lengths, and cheaper than Cu.

[wholybee]

There aren't really any advantages of fiber on a boat.
Bandwidth- Copper has much more bandwidth than anything used on a boat.
Not distance- boats aren't that large.
Not isolation- isolation is easy to achieve with copper in devices themselves and fiber still requires power.
Not lighting safe, as power still needs to be supplied, and that is where the damage usually comes from.

But several disadvantages:
Expensive. Fragile. Requires special tools and skills to splice. Still need copper to power everything. So, what would make the most sense is a purpose-built cable, with both power and fiber, and special hybrid connectors. From a wiring standpoint, it would be no different than NMEA2000, with similar sized, but more expensive pieces. And no advantage.

What fiber is good for is longer distances (over 100 meters) and high bandwidth (over 10 Gbit). So, two network switches will be connected to each other with fiber, but fiber is rarely run from a switch to a device, unless the devices is very far away, like the top of a tower or on a building roof. That is why weather stations use them, etc.

Given the distances and bandwidth involved, everything is moving to wireless. Wind instruments at the top of the mast, wireless and powered with a battery and small solar panel. Mostly lightning safe(except for a direct hit) because there is no electrical connection at all with the boat.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by team karst

Hmmm, how many nmea2k users are splicing copper? I submit exceedingly few.
Fiber will be bought in premade lengths, and cheaper than Cu.

There are a few N2k splices on my boat. Fiber would not be cheaper, because it would be a propriety hybrid cable with both fiber and copper for power, in a thick protective jacket. I would guess it would sell for a couple dollars per foot, more than current NMEA2000 cable.

Current mass-produced fiber cables are totally unsuitable for the environment. Even using in a data-center they are run in flexible plastic conduit to protect them. They break quite easily if bent too far or while pulling them though a space. If you were to zip-tie a bundle of them to secure them from vibration/chafing, you could damage them. And the connectors are delicate, and simply touching the connector sometimes requires using a special tool to polish it afterwards. Engineering a suitable cable for a boat is certainly possible, but not cheap.