The Slow Demise of the Sailing Forum

[HankOnthewater]

As said in above posts, each type of social media is suited to a particular need.
Things change, all the time, and 21 years for CF in the digital world is not bad innings, I could even say "CF format is ancient".

That in itself (being ancient) is a warning though, as the older generation disappears, new members are likely looking for a more up to date forum. A gradual evolution is called for I think, something like how the the shape of the coke bottle changed. Not a radical change like twitter to X.

[Shrew]

I see zero need to divulge my own personal identity or information. How does knowing my real name, address, family or friends have anything to do with discussions on this forum?

If you think the medium will die, so bet bit. "Welcome aboard...you will be missed".

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Ryban

However, in defense of Facebook, there are communities there dedicated to a single boat type or builder, or engine model/manufacturer. These groups have been far more useful for me when trying to get help on an issue specific to my boat or engine.

From a technical information repository and reference source, we have found that both FB and "groups" (Yahoo and Google) have developed into essentially useless sources of retrievable information.

This is not to say there can't be meaningful discussion on those platforms, there can.

But for finding anything that's been posted before they sorely lack that attribute.

A forum with a good search engine, a parallel wiki and other features of robust websites seem to be far more suited to what you started out with: ...dedicated to a single boat type or builder, or engine model/manufacturer... And what Sailor Sailor did in his OP; I know Ryban that you didn't start this thread, I just caught your comments as very pertinent to my experiences.

It would seem that the goal of the medium is what's important. Knocking one at the expense of others is imo rather silly and childish.

I've been doing this single boat internet thing for 25 years. Those who share my enthusiasm for our own website and its many "sistership" venues look forward to a secure future, because people continue to use the products we have developed essentially singular historical technical references for the product in its OEM form and enhancements and improvements made by skippers. Many of our boats are on their fourth or fifth owners, I'm just the second of mine.

[dlj]

I generally find Facebook to be filled with too much "noise" and not enough information. These kinds of forums have a higher ratio of "information to noise", although all Internet information sources are littered with "noise".

I must admit however, my last three crew i found through Facebook and they were superb crew! So at this point I'm undecided as to the usefulness of each. Previously I would have said Facebook was pretty much worthless, now I can't say that. I also use WhatsApp and Telegram groups. Of the later, the Telegram groups created by Rui focused in the Orca concerns off Portugal and Spain are absolutely superb! I can see how these types of focused, and monitored, groups can become far more useful than these types of forums for specific subjects.

dj

[wholybee]

The problem with Facebook for a replacement for a forum like this is that even though anything posted on Facebook is there forever, it is impossibly difficult to search and find answers to questions that have been asked thousands of times. Facebook is designed to move the user from one thread to another quickly and without them knowing. So if you log in to ask a question or search if it has been asked before, you are very soon in a conversation about something else entirely.
Not because it is a good platform, but only because of the huge international user base, Facebook is the best place for getting up to the minute information. "If I show up tomorrow, is there room in the anchorage?" or I even saw yesterday "The marina won't answer their phone and I arrive tomorrow, can someone walk into the office and make sure there will be room for me?" And questions about services "Is the fuel good/safe?", "Is there a Volvo dealer?" That type of question could never be asked on this forum with any expectation of getting an answer, but on Facebook, it is quite common and works even in very remote locations. In that sense, it more replaces the cruising nets that are/were held for given areas. Facebook is one more nail in the coffin for SSB. Some high profile (and successful) search and rescues have been coordinated on Facebook, when boats in the area reporting their locations, where they have searched, and were they intend to search.
If you need technical help, Facebook doesn't work so well. If you think the many threads here on LiFePO4 are repetitive, stay out of the various LFP Facebook groups, where the exact question might be asked several times in one day. Forums remain king for archival information or getting to a real expert. (interestingly a few high profile professionals ex. Rod Collins now regularly post on Facebook, but not so much here) for younger generations that only grew up with Facebook, I don't think they even know these forums exist. I actually got into an argument once when I tried to direct an OpenCPN user here, and they were positive Facebook was the official support channel.

All and all, yeah, I think a slow death, as current users will age out and younger will not join to take their place.

Re: what's app. I have resisted and continue to resist. Read the fine print, not only are you giving up your identity, but you (if you installed it) gave Facebook permission to download your entire address book so they can build a giant who is connected to who network. Facebook itself does that too, but it is optional, and I have opted out. What's app refuses to work if you refuse those permissions.

The draw to whats app is different, though. What I learned is that in foreign ports, especially remote ports, business owners know that you won't be able to easily call them. So they join whats app, and now you don't need a local sim, can be offshore or in another country, and easily call them. For that, I did at one point buy a "burner" phone with a local sim and installed whats app. But it will never go onto my main device attached to my "real" phone number.

[dlj]

That's the advantage of the telegram app - it is anonymous...

dj

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by dcondit

… My kids (both adults now) never use Facebook anymore, so I suspect that will fade also.

Originally Posted by Miyalk

…Interestingly most of my son's cohort (early 20's) have never used FB, I suspect it’s going to die out with the boomers.

This aligns with my anecdotal experience. When people say that younger people/generations prefer to do everything on Facebook, I do wonder if they mean people whose children haven’t graduated college yet. We are now up to three living generations younger than that.

My experience with people under 40 (which, if I’m being realistic, also bottoms out around 25) is a small number of people are on Facebook constantly, and a large majority either 1) use it for one or two specific groups, or solely for access to FB marketplace or 2) actively deleted their account or simply don’t know their password.

Facebook, like all attention hacking tech, works best on people that don’t fully realize it’s working on them, not for them.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I have a lot of problems with CF, and do find I spend less time here because of some of the negatives. But facebook is magnitudes worse than anything here.

So (and I say this as a volunteer moderator) what could we do here on CF to make it more useful and relevant? I had thought that the social groups here offered a way for folks to connect well, but I know the awareness of (and alerts from) those changed a few years back. Are those dinosaurs?

[dlj]

Originally Posted by Don C L

So (and I say this as a volunteer moderator) what could we do here on CF to make it more useful and relevant? I had thought that the social groups here offered a way for folks to connect well, but I know the awareness of (and alerts from) those changed a few years back. Are those dinosaurs?

Well, i know you are asking Mike, but here is my take. The fundamental problem is how do you attract a broad demographic?

I've not found the social groups here to be useful. The seem slow and limited in the number of people using them. Compared to Facebook where there are millions of people using it, CF simply does not have to population support.

Through Facebook i picked up an italian, an Irish and a Slovenian as crew. None of them had even heard of CF. The first and last were young, the middle almost my age. The guy from Ireland runs his own charter business in the Med and wanted to do the milk run with someone else so he wouldn't have to sail his own boat back to the med once he arrived here. He uses Facebook and WhatsApp groups all the time in the med running his business.

The two young folk would probably never use CF - it's not their "media style".

I think if you are serious about changing CF - you'd need to hire someone from that age group that could help create a format that would be attractive to a younger age group. Not sure it can easily be done ...

dh

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Don C L

So (and I say this as a volunteer moderator) what could we do here on CF to make it more useful and relevant? I had thought that the social groups here offered a way for folks to connect well, but I know the awareness of (and alerts from) those changed a few years back. Are those dinosaurs?

The main reasons I find myself lingering less here has to do with the general tone of this place. For reasons that are likely multi-faceted, I find there is a higher ratio of, to put it bluntly, simple nastiness here.

CF just has a surlier character. This is in comparison to the only other forum I frequent; that sailing net. Even as the traffic on the other has increased, it is just not as testy over there as compared to here. I also find the moderation is more moderate. Discussions happen more freely, and yet, with less animosity, over there.

The other reason is the demise of the mobile app. It's just more of a pita to access via a mobile browser.

I'm not trying to dump on CF. I only posted the above because you asked Don. I'm not planning to leave here (not that my presence matters), but I do find myself contributing less.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

As said in above posts, each type of social media is suited to a particular need.
Things change, all the time, and 21 years for CF in the digital world is not bad innings, I could even say "CF format is ancient".

That in itself (being ancient) is a warning though, as the older generation disappears, new members are likely looking for a more up to date forum. A gradual evolution is called for I think, something like how the the shape of the coke bottle changed. Not a radical change like twitter to X.

From my view point CF has changed a lot in the time I have been a member..
A influx of larger more expensive boats, more tech orientated gear that makes the forum I joined seem a different creature which I suspect has much to do with folk leaving for other sites...
However the knowledge imparted by older/past members remains invaluable to the next generations should they choose to look.. from Seamanship to engineering or traditional navigation to the bells and whistles and more.
For the sailor this forum gives more info on so many more subjects than any other site I've signed into.. and as for Fartbook, if your a fan of trainee YouTubers rave on..

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Ryban

However, in defense of Facebook, there are communities there dedicated to a single boat type or builder, or engine model/manufacturer. These groups have been far more useful for me when trying to get help on an issue specific to my boat or engine. Also hugely valuable are the Facebook groups devoted to a given cruising ground.

I belong to a couple of each. Oddly enough, I've found none very helpful. First and foremost, there are more ads than actual cruisers helping each other.

Many of the questions are hyper-specific, and don't apply to me. You might say the same is true on CF, but here I can scroll past dozens of them in a few seconds.

I don't know the answer. If you want to change the format to attract younger people, you'll need to set it up to serve thousands of very short, obnoxious, sometimes obscene and generally useless videos. In "profile" orientation. Fed to users by an algorithm which selects for the loudest, flashiest and most titillating content.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

If you want to change the format to attract younger people, you'll need to set it up to serve thousands of very short, obnoxious, sometimes obscene and generally useless videos. In "profile" orientation. Fed to users by an algorithm which selects for the loudest, flashiest and most titillating content.

As a younger millenial myself, I'll say "please don't."

[Island Time O25]

My issue with FB is their default of "top comments" which cannot be changed permanently to "all comments". I find that totally unacceptable. That said I do use it mainly to peek at small but very useful Beneteau 235 group which periodically comes up with valuable and pertinent info on that model which I happen to possess with the goal of making it my winter go to Florida sailing platform.

As far as CF is concerned I think (and hope) the fears of its emminent demise are greatly exaggerated. We have enough "youngons" in their 40s and 50s to keep it alive for the next 20 to 30 years. And beyond that I don't think matters that much for the current membership.

[Jammer]

The sad history is that Yahoo Groups and later Facebook absorbed many once-vibrant mailing lists and forums and then destroyed them -- Yahoo groups by simply shutting down, and Facebook by making it impossible to follow threads of discussion in a coherent way and by driving away users through excessive, creepy advertising.


Facebook in its heyday was close to being a universal platform, but the internet is Balkanized now with Discord, Reddit, Snapchat, etc., all having their little fiefdoms.


Some forums out there are highly successful. Any forum will tend towards a rotation of the same topics over the course of years as people come and go, which makes it less interesting for long-term participants. CF is one of a handful of reasonably successful sailing forums, all with contrasting moderation/hosting strategies and communities.