Marinas Bite the Big One

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

People want to be "safe." So we'll require every marina to be up to the latest code. Then every employee should get a "living(?) wage." So raise their salaries and benefits. Then we need to protect the environment. So the marina/boatyard has to make expensive improvements.

I don't know about you, but I'm all for safe marinas, with happy well paid employees, that doesn't destroy the environment we're out here to enjoy

Here's a SHOCKING statistic, a recent WWF study shows that Animal populations worldwide have declined nearly 70% in just 50 years

I'm 55, and can remember as a kid the bird song in the backyard, all the small critters in the hedgerows, and things like giant murmurs of swifts in the tree tops in summer evenings (I grew up where town met farm).

I actually stumbled across that report recently when I googled "where have all the animals gone" because while searching for my runaway cat I was astounded at the lack of wildlife around here.

[Bycrick]

I’m not in favor of poorly maintained, unsafe marinas. Nor can we chain the employees to the dock and beat them for non-performance. Nor dumping trash in the bay.

But addressing all of these issues costs money. Marinas aren’t charities. Why should your expensive hobby be subsidized by the general population? For everybody who has written that "boat owning" has gotten "too expensive," try substituting "stabling my polo pony" and see how much sympathy you get.

[Enyar]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Well, you know boat bottoms. I know investing and businesses.


What's forming in the marina business is what's called an oligopoly. That's when a small number of companies are able to dominate an industry and set artificially high prices.


That's why venture capital firms are eager to invest in businesses such as Safe Harbor. They see outsized profits as the marina businesses gain more and more market share.


In St. Petersburg, Safe Harbor already owns nearby Harborage Marina. Taking over the city marina would have given it control of a majority of boat slips in the downtown area.


You really think Safe Harbor would keep slip rates reasonable so the locals and cruisers can enjoy sailing? If so, I have a bridge near you to sell you. Sailors would have to suck up the high rates so wealthy investors can get even richer.



IGY Marinas took over the Maximo marina on Boca Ciega Bay. Sure, it invested money and improved things. It also evicted all boats under 40 feet, doubled the slip fees and kicked out liveaboards who had been there for years.


It's changing the character of boating. If you're someone with 20 or 50 million in investments, it's not a concern. If you're a middle class person, it may keep you from getting out on the water.



There's a longer economic explanation for why this type of thing is happening, but that's straying way off this thread.

Thank you for your posts. Unfortunately boating and anything related to getting out on the water is quickly becoming a 1%ers hobby. Privatized beaches are another one.

[Danm1]

https://therealdeal.com/2022/02/01/r...marina-sector/

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Westport Marina, which advertises itself as San Francisco Bay's newest marina, was opened in 2006. It went through a 12-year application process, even though there was no opposition.


Sixteen years ago is hardly "the last few years."


https://westpointharbor.com/story/

Since we're splitting hairs; Westpoint opened in 2008. Got anymore wrong information you want to share?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

My 30' slip in a municipal marina costs me $855... a season! The 40 footers are about $250 more. That said, it is on a lake (30 miles long and 9 wide) but will soon (hopefully) have water access via a restored canal system to Green Bay (Great Lakes) and, we only have access/use from April 15th to November 15th.

Public ownership of property for the benefit of people who are not wealthy! It's the end of the world! Socialism!

[lituya1617]

If you own a boat and use it for short weekend trips or day sailing, you should trailer it home and not have a boat so big you have to pay rent in a marina. If you have a large boat, you are going to pay large fees because you have a luxury item. That is the nature of our system. Luxury costs a lot. If you live aboard your boat, marina fees are just like rent these days. Rent an apartment and save the problems of ownership. Go in with some pals on a boat so you can keep sailing. If you are an old vagabond like me on minimal social security, anchor out. That is still free. Rowing ashore and walking to buy groceries and fuel for the generator is great exercise, keeps you young. You can still have friends over or even raft up with other boaters on multiple anchors. If you have a large boat and want to avoid marina fees, you can also anchor out; however, there are problems with that if you have local thieves or a weak anchoring system. Marinas are convenient in some ways but they are not really the boat life. The boat life is being lulled to sleep by the lapping of wavelets on the hull and the gentle rocking of the boat, taking a shower on the aft deck, reading, sailing in a leisurely manner to the next spot on the chart that looks interesting, catching a fish for breakfast, washing clothes in a bucket, and listening to music as loud as strikes your fancy. Marinas... not so much. Marinas need boaters, boaters do not need marinas.

[edlepera]

That has happen along the Ohio River too. Marinas that have been around for decades are bought out Old structures torn down. Expensive condos built in there place. Slip that used to be 500 too 1000 seasonal have doubled. The sailboats 20 to 28 feet that used to tie to a slip are now trailer in a parking lot for a hundred a month. No services. So I sold my c22

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Since we're splitting hairs; Westpoint opened in 2008. Got anymore wrong information you want to share?

No, not really. You've done quite a good job of posting bad information yourself. I don't think you've had one accurate post on this thread. I'm not sure what your motivation is, other than to argue.



By the way, look at the photo on the marina web site that says it opened in 2006. But, either way, saying that the marina opened in "recent years" is not splitting hairs. It's just wrong.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Well, there is no other way to put it. Marinas are on a disturbing spiral and I see no end in sight.

Over the past ten or 15 years, venture groups and holding companies have been buying up many, if not most, of the better marinas across the US. These companies are versed in acquisitions and marketing, hospitality and investment. These are not owner operated or family run.

The result of this trend - higher prices and less service. Long-time experienced staff are dismissed, and corporate, "team" members are brought in.

My favorite and long-time home base marina in the Chesapeake (starts with a Z) had precisely this happen a few years ago. Result:
GM fired
Service Mgr. fired
Experienced service technicians fired or left of own accord.

And slip fees jumped. Service declined.

Just happened again here in Florida. Big financial Corp buys marina I am currently at, raises slip fees 41%; changes billing so that you pay up front, and not in arrears; eliminates amenities, etc..

So there is no longer a local owner, but a corporate raider comprised of CEO, COO, CFO CMO, CTO, plus enough VPs to choke a horse.
And we still don't have internet that was promised to be fixed three years ago.

I understand that boaters are looked at as cash cows, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of us are retirees, living on fixed incomes. Getting hit with a $237 monthly slip fee increase, with 30 days notice isn't a happy thing.

I have seen others over the years complain about costs associated with boating. Seems most comments are "if you don't like it, leave."

Well, I don't like and I will leave, but to where?
Industry consolidation (elimination of competitors and creation of monopolies) is not in the public's best interest. Remember when there were more than just West Marine for boating supplies?

A handful of large companies are taking control over the marinas, docks and boatyards. This will not end well.

The harsh reality is the boating industry has exploded. In NC they are selling slips for $70k to $80k for 49 ft slips with electric lifts that only cos $10k. Minimum rental is around $600+. Five years ago you could by a slip $15k to $25k. It’s not the companies fault. It’s the market has changed. The 18’ to 28’ Center Console market exploded. Those people aren’t looking for amenities. All they want is a hose and power. They want to be out on the water not sitting at the dock.

Life is full of changes. Sometimes we are on the right side of it. Sometimes we aren’t.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Would you rather they close the marinas down because socialism says no one should have anything unless everyone can have the same?

Where the hell did you come up with that crock?

Socialism in this case would be the people would be the ones who controlled management and prices.

[lituya1617]

Of course buying the marina and running it as a collective non-profit makes great sense. For the fees being charged now the boaters could just buy the darn place! But people often refuse to cooperate with each other just because it makes sense. That is why I live on the anchor. My dad always said that the best thing about a boat is that you can change the view at will and make bad neighbors a distant memory after an hour of sailing. In my book, marinas are bad neighbors who try (often successfully) to extort unsupportable fees from what they consider people with no other choice. Treating your neighbor as an income source is not the kind of love I want. Love your neighbor was not meant to mean loving his money.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Would you rather they close the marinas down because socialism says no one should have anything unless everyone can have the same?

Hilarious. Never ceases to amaze - is it ignorance or knowing misrepresentation?

[lituya1617]

SOCIALISM: "1. A theory or system of social organization in which the means of production and distribution of goods are owned collectively or by the government." Webster's Dictionary. You good folks are not using the term "socialism" properly, but "Celestialsailor" is much closer to the definition than "lestersails". Ownership collectively of a marina is not socialism; rather, it is a form of capitalism wherein ownership (boaters who use their money to buy a marina) uses capital to save their capital for other uses. The saved money, marina fees that would otherwise be transferred to other ownership, can be viewed as the "profit" of the collective investment. The collective ownership of a marina or any other economic entity is a very long way from socialism. In a sense, such collective action is the best of capitalism. It is really no different than a company owned by stockholders except it generates savings rather than what is usually called profits. Of course, the savings are then free to generate profits from other investments so it works out in a neat capitalistic way and opposes the general trend of current predatory capitalism. I like that about it.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I am waiting anxiously to see what happens with my marina, which has been privately owned for 25 years, but is now part of a big divestiture and there is no telling what will happen. The Harbormaster who has been there all 25 years left about two months ago for a new job, so that is not a reassuring sign. Considering that my county is the fastest growing county in NC, I do not expect costs to decrease, and if a corporation buys the place, slip fees could easily go up 50%.