Marinas Bite the Big One

[Bycrick]

A few years ago, my yacht club needed to do some major work on our haulout facility. Cost was well into six figures. When I suggested that we might want to raise the rates to cover part of the costs, someone piped up with "What about the people that can’t afford it?" He was "shocked and disappointed" when my response was "Then let them haul out someplace else or get rid of the boat."

As Commodore Vanderbilt supposedly said "If you have to ask how much, you can’t afford it."

There are certainly enough cases where government, big business or special interest groups manage to get their hands into the pockets of one group to give benefits of some sort to another group. And it’s never pleasant when you are in the former group rather than the latter.

But the constant complaining that your hobby or lifestyle should be subsidized by others is simply self-serving rhetoric.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Happ

The harsh reality is the boating industry has exploded. In NC they are selling slips for $70k to $80k for 49 ft slips with electric lifts that only cos $10k. Minimum rental is around $600+. Five years ago you could by a slip $15k to $25k. It’s not the companies fault. It’s the market has changed. The 18’ to 28’ Center Console market exploded. Those people aren’t looking for amenities. All they want is a hose and power. They want to be out on the water not sitting at the dock.

Life is full of changes. Sometimes we are on the right side of it. Sometimes we aren’t.

Those prices are bargains. Rent in FL is 2-3X of that and with a waiting list in many places.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Fishing boats take it on the chin......I can easily drop $300 on marine gas for a morning's fishing trip....now that is inching closer to $500 a trip....even with buddies helping at the gas pump...it's taking a big bite on the 'ole wallet...

I need to get new fishing buddies....my guys thinking $50 thrown into the pot is good going......I need to break the news to them about inflation...

I run twin 150 yammies....I look at the dudes with their twin 350 hp engines...and I can feel their pain...

Looks to me like the inflation is not the cost of the gas, but rather the ponies on the stern. As noted above, gas costs less today than it did 40+ years ago. Mercury didn't even make a 350 horse motor in 1980. How many fishing boats had 700 horses on the stern in 1980?
This reminds me of the guys in their monster trucks wailing and moaning about gas prices.
Methinks you are going to have to try a different tack here. Fuel prices are not the end of boating. They may be the end of roaring around in racing boats.

[NormanMartin]

The Wall Street Journal recently reported on this consolidation process so it must be mainstream. I see the problem in the marinas where I work as a captain in the Northeast. I also not that so many boats sit at their moorings or slips unused for the majority of the season. I am not talking about midweek but one beautiful weekend after another.

I forecast an increase in sailing/boating clubs as old boats get scrapped. Change is hard. Change is inevitable.

[Hoodsail]

Originally Posted by geozeck

In 2014 my total dockage fees in Key West went above $2000 per month. We moved to Placencia, Belize and docked at a far nicer resort for about $300 per month with electricity. Problem solved.

GEOZECK; Over $2000/month slip fees?!! How long is your boat? Cat/mono? But that is crazy expensive at any length. That is almost (add $200) what I pay for the season at our CT municipal marina...Was looking at transient fees for one nite this coming June on Block Island, about $180 for 35 ft...I'll be anchoring or mooring ($40)...
I am astonished at the size/hp of outboards now...The capper is the 600hp Mercury Verado at approx $77,000!!! Triple what I paid for my entire boat...Sure hope it gets them up on plane...

[MicHughV]

that might be true, if we were both running at the same rpm and fishing in the same spot...but the big boys like to put the hammer down and typically run 2-3 times further offshore than I do..

at wot my gas consumption shoots up to 45 gal/hr...but at cruise....I'm burning about 15 gal/hr...
at wot, twin 350's are burning about 65 gal/hr

no matter how slice it....it's a pain at the pump

[muthrtuckr]

Abbot's is still in business. Eight of the marinas on the shore in CT have been bough up by Safe Harbor. Yes, pricing are rising. I belong to a yacht club that has a great facility. We have piles of people trying to join and get slips because of what's happening at the marinas. BTW...the exact same thing is happening to the ski areas. Vail has bought up piles of them from coast to coast. Prices up, service declining...some are even charging for preferred parking. I guess this is the new reality.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by geozeck

In 2014 my total dockage fees in Key West went above $2000 per month. We moved to Placencia, Belize and docked at a far nicer resort for about $300 per month with electricity. Problem solved.

How long can you stay in Belize before they want import fees?

[ob44]

Originally Posted by redsky49

Well, there is no other way to put it. Marinas are on a disturbing spiral and I see no end in sight.

Over the past ten or 15 years, venture groups and holding companies have been buying up many, if not most, of the better marinas across the US. These companies are versed in acquisitions and marketing, hospitality and investment. These are not owner operated or family run.

The result of this trend - higher prices and less service. Long-time experienced staff are dismissed, and corporate, "team" members are brought in.

My favorite and long-time home base marina in the Chesapeake (starts with a Z) had precisely this happen a few years ago. Result:
GM fired
Service Mgr. fired
Experienced service technicians fired or left of own accord.

And slip fees jumped. Service declined.

Just happened again here in Florida. Big financial Corp buys marina I am currently at, raises slip fees 41%; changes billing so that you pay up front, and not in arrears; eliminates amenities, etc..

So there is no longer a local owner, but a corporate raider comprised of CEO, COO, CFO CMO, CTO, plus enough VPs to choke a horse.
And we still don't have internet that was promised to be fixed three years ago.

I understand that boaters are looked at as cash cows, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of us are retirees, living on fixed incomes. Getting hit with a $237 monthly slip fee increase, with 30 days notice isn't a happy thing.

I have seen others over the years complain about costs associated with boating. Seems most comments are "if you don't like it, leave."

Well, I don't like and I will leave, but to where?
Industry consolidation (elimination of competitors and creation of monopolies) is not in the public's best interest. Remember when there were more than just West Marine for boating supplies?

A handful of large companies are taking control over the marinas, docks and boatyards. This will not end well.

Things surely have changed. Years ago, I was the Dockmaster at Williams & Manchester Shipyard in Newport RI. In addition to a real, full-service shipyard, it had a large marina, which I ran. In those days, a very large yacht was 70 feet, and we did not see many of them. "Superyachts" really did not exist, certainly not in any number, and the Maxis were the indisputable masters of the universe. The marina bustled with boats 30-50 feet, with the occasional 70 footer. The shipyard really catered to Navy (YPs and tugs, mainly) and deep-sea fishing vessels. When the Navy left and the fishing piers began to sell to developers, the shipyard couldn't survive on servicing the "normal" yachts of the day. It folded and sold to a developer that erected ugly condos where the marine railway had stood and converted the thriving, bustling marina into a horrible, sedentary "dockominium."

The famous Newport Shipyard also folded, more than once. It used to have two locations, the main location being a few blocks away from Williams & Manchester on Thames Street (the current location was known as "Newport Shipyard North"). That closed permanently and Newport Shipyard North then became Newport Offshore, which also folded and then it became Newport Shipyard again. It was exceedingly difficult to make a go of it servicing the "normal" boats of the day.

What has changed is money, lots of it. And the technology that produces the Superyachts of today. The 30-50' yachts crowding Newport's wharves 20-40 years ago have been displaced by monstrously huge yachts. A 100' yacht barely registers today when there are innumerable boats over 150' and yes, over 200'.

And all those monsters require massive support. Newport Shipyard carved a niche catering to increasingly large yachts, to the point where the number of 100+ foot yachts there at any time is truly astounding. The amount of money they spend is staggering. For the first time in my lifetime (in history?) boatyards catering to the super rich offer investors better ROI than a straight real estate play, which is why the Evil Empire of Safe Harbor (and others) has turned its evil eye to marinas.

The stock market over the past few years has been red hot, as is the current boat market. All things ebb and flow, so perhaps a "correction" will cool the yacht market, although I wonder whether that will just cut off the lower rungs of boat owners. One thing I fear is that the corporate raiders that have "consolidated" most of the boatyards will sell the real estate to developers once the ROI from operating the yard becomes less attractive. In the meantime, those of us who own "normal" yachts will have to struggle to find "affordable" boatyards.

[MicHughV]

I was trying to put the 65 gal/hr in some kind of context that could be easily understood.

So I imagined myself at the fuel deck fill of such a fishing boat with 13 x 5 gallon fuel containers (65 gallons)...it would require me to ....pretty much non-stop.......keep filling that tank....I'd have about 5 minutes, to loosen the screw cap, attach a nozzle and start pouring gas into the tank...and then grab the next one....there'd be no stopping for lunch....

Those big V-8's chug down some serious gas.....

[AJA]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

OK, I finally made it to 76 Trombones, and I gotta tell you kids:



You're starting to sound just like my parents and grandparents talking about the good old days and how the kids are making the world going to hell in a hand basket.

Maybe you just haven't noticed - the world IS going to hell in a handbasket

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

GEOZECK; Over $2000/month slip fees?!! How long is your boat? Cat/mono? But that is crazy expensive at any length. .

Its Key West. The slip I'm in right now (Stock Island Yacht Club and Marina) is $2,680/month including power, water, and pump outs in the slip.

By my estimate more than half of the boats here are Airnbnb and never leave the slip (those guys are paying a surcharge of around $500/mo on top of the regular rate). The three slips next to me have ~40' sailboats in that are purely airbnb all run by the same guy and they never leave. A few slips down is a couple on an older ketch who are managing a Bali 4.0, he says it turns around $15-18,000 PROFIT A MONTH. At those kind of numbers three grand for the slip fee is nothing.

[botanybay]

Originally Posted by thinwater

It's slightly shallow. The cat and tri are mine. Been there for about 30 years by now... because it's a deal.

The trick, if there is one, is that the Chesapeake Bay has a LOT of shoreline. No marina shortage.

Sail Delmarva: Afordable Slips in Deale, MD

Wow, I remember living aboard in Deale in the 90's, a 35 foot slip was $2400 per year if I remember correctly, haul out was less than 50 per month. No live aboard fee :-)

Herrington harbor north.

Now I am in southern California (with a 55 foot boat admittedly) and it is that per month. Warm all year though. Another 500 per month for storage bin (big).

One advantage is going cruising drops lots of costs :-)

[redsky49]

Seeing this thread starting to head into the weeds, it is the right time to announce:

NEW CORPORATE OWNERS RESCIND INCREASE IN SLIP FEES!

In what has seemed to be a major miscalculation/ screw up, the new owners are doing damage control. There are some additional issues behind the scenes, but it appears that, for the time being, prices will not jump up next month.

In the meantime, be nice to each other. Go sailing!

[MicHughV]

NEW CORPORATE OWNERS RESCIND INCREASE IN SLIP FEES!


What ???...did hell just freeze over