I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

[boatman61]

Why are pictures not uploading..???

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hi Geoff,

In a nutshell, I think the right purchase is a boat that's good enough to sail but otherwise needs updating/fixing up. Then, one has to repress the perfectionist urge, do enough basic repairs to make the boat safe to sail, and put her in the water. Sail her AND start doing the fixups you want.

Working on a boat without sailing it is like fixing up a house that you don't and may never live in. Life's too short.

Well, that's pretty much my concept too.

AussieGeoff

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Why are pictures not uploading..???

In a forum post, if it's something not on the web already, an attachment (the paper clip symbol) is the one to use.

The insert image only works for urls (stuff on the web already).

AussieGeoff

[DumnMad]

The OP had trouble with his engine and thats what broke the bank. (Reconditioned the motor then got salt water into it if I remember correctly)
Plenty of good hulls out there for $3,000 but the real risk for a low budget is mechanical breakdown.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by AussieGeoff

In a forum post, if it's something not on the web already, an attachment (the paper clip symbol) is the one to use.
AussieGeoff

That's the one I've used for yonks.. but this time no pic's.. just a 'rotate picture' thingy..

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

The OP had trouble with his engine and thats what broke the bank. (Reconditioned the motor then got salt water into it if I remember correctly)
Plenty of good hulls out there for $3,000 but the real risk for a low budget is mechanical breakdown.

True, particularly with diesels. I got lucky with the ancient Yanmar on the Ferro. The not going was simply due to it not being used for some years - it was stuck in gear which was too much for the starter - which was a double belt arrangement to the flywheel and a bit agricultural at best. Once I got the belts right (or as right as possible, V belts on a flat flywheel wasn't working will - if we'd kept it I'd have changed the pulley on the starter and used a flat belt instead.) it started easy with a squirt of 'Start You Bastard' into the manifold when cold and on diesel when warmed up and ran quiet and clean. Despite its age (I suspect it was the original engine so circa 1975) I don't think it had seen a lot of use.

See a lot of boats for sale with seized engines, presumably due to salt water ingress.


AussieGeoff

[GILow]

Originally Posted by AussieGeoff

I see a lot of old wooden hulls, maybe a few hulls that might be ok in what appears to be the 'back lot' our American friend referred to. Only a few with masts. Can honestly say never seen one like this in Oz before. Most east coast marinas are so tight for land (due to the cost of it, especially with water frontage) they don't have such things.

Seem to be a few on the water that might be plausible, I can see one that looks to have sunk at a mooring (no, not thinking about that one) Hard to say much from sat pics, Since you've been there I'll take your word there are viable boats there that might be up for sale cheap.

Actually, last time I was there it looked slightly more promising than the satellite photos suggest. I couldn't get a streetview from Google so I am not sure if it just an angle thing.

Anyway, immediately to the NE of that yard is a very friendly little club called the Garden Island Yacht Club, where we would loved to have kept our boat, but getting to it would be difficult with our draft as it as at the end of a quite long and variable channel. It also would have added an hour to either end of a day trip, so not really feasible. BUT, it has lots of what CarstenB eloquently referred to as the "back row" boats, which might also yield some options. To the SW is another yard, but it seemed quite busy when I was snooping around, and I did not have a look too hard. But might offer some options.

Also, a couple of years ago our club hiked the prices on the hardstand storage by 50% or more and drove out most of the "back row" boats, along with a good chunk of the less sailed but good condition trailer sailors. Rumour was that a lot of them went down to clubs on Lake Alexandrina, so I would certainly suggest visiting down there if you have already made the journey to Adelaide.

I do share your pain with finding boats in Adelaide. They were certainly all clustered along the East Coast of Australia when we started looking a few years ago, and it was quite a pleasant surprise to find what we wanted as close to home as Melbourne, a mere 500 Nautical Miles to bring the boat home, instead of 1500 or more. It's a legacy socio-economic thing. Adelaide has a lot of "old money" and therefore, in general, there's a much lower finance level on boats over here. This means people tend to hang on to them as they don't NEED to sell them.

I met a guy who transported BIG boats around Australia with a specialised $2 million prime mover and trailer, and he said in five years of operation he had not stopped ONCE in Adelaide. It was all Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. I think that guy had a better grasp of economic activity in Australia than most bankers.

Matt

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by GILow

Actually, last time I was there it looked slightly more promising than the satellite photos suggest. I couldn't get a streetview from Google so I am not sure if it just an angle thing.

Hard to say, lot of hulls there, whether any of them are for sale is the question - and at what price.

Originally Posted by GILow

Anyway, immediately to the NE of that yard is a very friendly little club called the Garden Island Yacht Club, where we would loved to have kept our boat, but getting to it would be difficult with our draft as it as at the end of a quite long and variable channel. It also would have added an hour to either end of a day trip, so not really feasible.

Pirie is much the same, there's a deep channel that goes all the way in, but you need to be VERY careful in anything with 5ft plus draft around the marina jetty ('Fisherman's Jetty' to the locals) or you will get stuck.

Originally Posted by GILow

BUT, it has lots of what CarstenB eloquently referred to as the "back row" boats, which might also yield some options. To the SW is another yard, but it seemed quite busy when I was snooping around, and I did not have a look too hard. But might offer some options.

I'll have a good look next time I'm in Adelaide. Looks interesting if nothing else.

Originally Posted by GILow

Also, a couple of years ago our club hiked the prices on the hardstand storage by 50% or more and drove out most of the "back row" boats, along with a good chunk of the less sailed but good condition trailer sailors. Rumour was that a lot of them went down to clubs on Lake Alexandrina, so I would certainly suggest visiting down there if you have already made the journey to Adelaide.

Ok, worth a go. Lake Alex is problematic in that it gets quite rough being fairly shallow and not enough water for anything like a deep keel a lot of the time. Bilge keeler territory. To be honest, a large part of the area around here anywhere near the coast is a bit like that. When the tide goes out a Port Germein it goes out about a kilometre - there's a reason it had the longest jetty in country for a while.

Originally Posted by GILow

I do share your pain with finding boats in Adelaide. They were certainly all clustered along the East Coast of Australia when we started looking a few years ago, and it was quite a pleasant surprise to find what we wanted as close to home as Melbourne, a mere 500 Nautical Miles to bring the boat home, instead of 1500 or more. It's a legacy socio-economic thing. Adelaide has a lot of "old money" and therefore, in general, there's a much lower finance level on boats over here. This means people tend to hang on to them as they don't NEED to sell them.

Not just Adelaide, SA generally. Don't know about the socio-economic thing but it's mostly that there are not a lot of sheltered waters where you can drop a mooring around. Bugger all around Adelaide and none in Pirie - nowhere deep enough with enough room to swing a cat - or even a 25' boat.
Some biggish boats on swing moorings at Port Broughton (very nice friendly little club there - recommend it) but the channel is a bit tricky - hasn't been dredged since Pontius was a Pilot and there's at least one shallow spot about half way in on the starboard side - narrow channel. There are a few on swing at Port Lincoln as well, but most berths in and around SA are Marina berths and while they are a fraction of the cost they are in NSW, the boat population is largely trailer based and not a lot of yachts that aren't. When the Tripolis race is on, most of the racers turn up with their boat on a trailer. When I was last in that (on a stink boat working for the TV station armed with a Beaulieu 16mm camera in 1977) it was mostly bigger stuff with a sprinkling of RLxx trailer sailers. Just isn't the 'boatie community' in SA there is in NSW and QLD for some reason.

Originally Posted by GILow

I met a guy who transported BIG boats around Australia with a specialised $2 million prime mover and trailer, and he said in five years of operation he had not stopped ONCE in Adelaide. It was all Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. I think that guy had a better grasp of economic activity in Australia than most bankers.

Sounds about right. The cost of getting a boat from the west coast is less than getting one from Sydney - even though it's twice as far. Backloads. Nearly all the freight, not just boats, is east to west.

The 25 footer in question is at a pallet maker's plant. He has a couple of locals interested. If it falls through with them we'll see what happens. He seems to think it's more like 6 tonnes than 2-3, which seems heavy even for steel. Oh well. That's about 1200-1500 as scrap.

AussieGeoff

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

Steel would be fine also as long as it checked out o.k. No more wood or cement.

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Mark!

Dont even think about it. You said fibreglass. Go with that. Don't get swayed.

Congrats on the sale!

I have built 3 steel boats...2 of my own. Trust me, they are not the maintenance free "do it yourself and save" boats the designers say they are. Most of the problems are from the owners not wanting to put enough zincs on the bottom. That and the bleeders constantly showing up on the cabin and hull. Like Mark said, stick to your original plan and stay with F/G.

[DumnMad]

Good fibre glass & good ferro are low maintenance hulls but thats no use if he's going to have to blow the budget on the engine. Even upgrading the batteries & charging installation can cost $3,000.

[AussieGeoff]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I have built 3 steel boats...2 of my own. Trust me, they are not the maintenance free "do it yourself and save" boats the designers say they are. Most of the problems are from the owners not wanting to put enough zincs on the bottom. That and the bleeders constantly showing up on the cabin and hull. Like Mark said, stick to your original plan and stay with F/G.

Quite a few problems with boats of all kinds that live in the water full time are caused by a failure to understand electrolytic issues.

Ferros are a common one, people think of it as a 'cement' boat when in fact it's a cement coated STEEL boat. Failing to understand that and put enough anodes around (properly installed I might add) can see the mesh understructure disintegrate to the point where relatively small forces from impact or even stress on the hull in biggish seas can lead to catastrophic failures. Even glass boats are not immune, I've personally seen a propellor and shaft seriously eroded because the guy thought his plastic boat didn't need anodes, even though he was running a genset most nights. That was expensive, the anodes in the engine saved it from significant damage, but he was not a happy camper. Even on a wooden hull, this can happen, through hull fittings are also vulnerable.

AussieGeoff

[biker6977]

Like the original post and reply's, haven't read them all. Has made me stop and think. I will perhaps be pickier and increase my budget- thank you original poster and all those that suggest it should be sailable at time of purchase-

[GILow]

Although I agree with the concept that it is good for it to be sailable at time of purchase, I do think you also need to leave a LOT of room in the budget for the unexpected.

So increasing the level of boat you are considering, and avoiding the dreaded "project boat" may be a good idea, but not if you have nothing left in the kitty to fix what was missed at the time of purchase.

I allocated our budget as two thirds purchase price with another one third for upgrades/repairs. So far, touch wood, I think I got the balance right.

Matt

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by GILow

Although I agree with the concept that it is good for it to be sailable at time of purchase, I do think you also need to leave a LOT of room in the budget for the unexpected.

So increasing the level of boat you are considering, and avoiding the dreaded "project boat" may be a good idea, but not if you have nothing left in the kitty to fix what was missed at the time of purchase.

I allocated our budget as two thirds purchase price with another one third for upgrades/repairs. So far, touch wood, I think I got the balance right.

Matt

Agree, the cost of moving from sailable to live-aboard and ocean ready for us was getting towards + 50%. But thats paying others to do the work One sailor I know spent more on his solar than the purchase cost of the boat.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Agree, the cost of moving from sailable to live-aboard and ocean ready for us was getting towards + 50%. But thats paying others to do the work .

Hey DumnMad, do you have a sense of the breakdown of costs, as to what percentage was repairs and what was upgrades?

I'm curious as at the moment I feel like it is about 20/80 on our boat, with repairs being the cheap bit but upgrades costing more than I expected. (I am doing the work myself though, so labour cost is not a factor.)


Matt