I thought sailing was supposed to be fun

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by patagoniadave

In my attempt to get up to speed on sailing and cruising, I have read hundreds of threads on this site, and thousands of posts, all in less than a month. Very condensed.

I cannot remember which thread it was, but a regular was lamenting how few people post here. Why are there so many lurkers who do not contribute? I have a theory.

This site is a cesspool of toxic communication between members. I have never seen so many negative, sarcastic, angry, cynical. condescending trolls and cyber bullies in one place. It makes it hard to read through old posts, and I can understand why people do not want to contribute.

I don't understand where it comes from? I find great peace and mental health in this lifestyle, even when things go wrong. If sailing makes you so upset, I do not understand why you continue to do it?

Following

[danstanford]

I tend to agree with the crowd saying things are not too bad here AND in giving much of the credit to the moderators.

It is my belief that a discussion forum kind of encourages the irate crowd because of the style of dialogue. In one of these you get to think about your response and it often fails to rebut the statement and instead speaks tangentially to the issue. This prompts the original poster to get louder since someone disagreed with them but not on the point they made.

I enjoy the resultant wanderings as they make me think about lots of issues in new ways and if I am not interested I don't bother to read beyond the first few posts.

[Madehn]

I have occasionally kicked back a bit at people who were nasty on the forum but overall I find my time better spent by simply moving on. You can quickly figure out who has knowledge to impart and who is just there to be a jerk. Last time I looked I could control who I read and who I responded to. I could not control what others posted and to get upset about an internet post is to me the height of foolishness. It is the net not the real world. Works for me. My boat. My decisions. My responsibility. I own myself and no one else. Works for me your mileage may vary. 😀😀😀

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Kiss4aFrog

If you find someone's post abrasive or their information incorrect all you need to do is report it by hitting the little red triangle with the exclamation mark in it located in the lower left corner of each post.
Moderators do their best but I can tell you first hand they can't be everywhere all the time. It's amazing how much time you can spend as a moderator trying to keep current. Good moderators do a lot of work off forum with just a simple PM outlining issues that need to be addressed. If someone is actually a troll they'll be found out, given a chance to correct their behavior and if that fails, booted.

Great first post .

[colinalleck]

The rights of free speech and the internet has enabled many dissenting voices to be heard . Consider it their therapy, The alternative of controlling those voices will lead us to a darker place.

Go sailing to leave the noise behind.

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by patagoniadave

I have never seen so many negative, sarcastic, angry, cynical. condescending trolls and cyber bullies in one place.

Their called experts.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by colinalleck

The rights of free speech and the internet has enabled many dissenting voices to be heard . Consider it their therapy, The alternative of controlling those voices will lead us to a darker place.

Go sailing to leave the noise behind.

Differing opinions can set you free. I don’t travel to hear my own voice.


It’s the closed ears here I find sad. And yes, I mean both sides of the politics.

[Greatest Lakes]

The mods here do skew to the left, but that's not really an issue that comes up much. Usually the topic of pollution gets a bit squirrely, as some don't consider human made climate change a thing and prefer to be more concerned about pollution they can actually deal with, beach debris and plastics for instance. Most here do seem to have a fair amount of experience on why people actually come here though, sailing and everything peripheral to it.

[Fore and Aft]

PatagoniaDave this is the only forum I am on and I don't think people are that bad. For sure there are some cultural differences and some people might not get the joke. But generally I have learned so much here I think it's well worth being involved. Also there are genuine trolls like the clown recently who wanted to tow a boat across the Atlantic. Here in Aussie that is just inviting a verbal flogging from your friends.
Some posters like the Dugong lover I like to give a good ribbing online. After I have replied to him you can guarantee that I will have a private message and the joking continues out of public sight.
My attitude is if I won't say it to your face then I don't put it online. Some people just need a thicker skin and the realisation that maybe the truth is not really what they want to hear. Anyone for a blue water boat/circumnavigation thread after I have learnt to sail watching YouTube?

Cheers

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by danstanford

It is my belief that a discussion forum kind of encourages the irate crowd because of the style of dialogue. In one of these you get to think about your response and it often fails to rebut the statement and instead speaks tangentially to the issue. This prompts the original poster to get louder since someone disagreed with them but not on the point they made.

Good post. I think the other phenomenon is that in real human interactions, when someone is a jerk, the people around them physically remove themselves from the jerk - shake their heads, make a face and walk away and the troll is left standing alone with no one to talk to. They have to stop talking (or confirm they are a raving lunatic by talking to no one) and sound of their words disappear.
In an online forum, it gives the troll the impression that people are still there, participating with them. And ignoring them just doesn't work, IMHO. They keep at it, and often up the ante saying yet more outrageous and/or offensive things to the people who are trying to ignore them, until someone is compelled to respond. I really do appreciate folks like the mods and M.O'R. who counsel to ignore them. But it really, really rankles that they leave behind a record of ignorant and/or obnoxious rants that have gone unchallenged. I have before quoted Burke (though the attribution is uncertain) "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."
CF is small potatoes - we are all about to see what happens when trolling is unleashed and supercharged on Twitter with Musk's purchase. Another great example of why ignoring it won't work. I posted there in my professional role a few times a few years back, found it pathetic and annoying, and just stopped. That doesn't mean Twitter cannot wreck my life and our body politic.

[karkauai]

I rarely post on any social media, for this very reason. I do belong to one other group of owners of a particular make of sailboat. It is a delight because owners post in an effort to help others by sharing their experience and insight into sailing and maintenance and repairs of their boats. It rarely seems self-serving or confrontative, and when it does, ALL other group members immediately tell the offender to cease and desist, or the arguing parties to take their bickering off line. On only one occasion in 12 years has an offending member had to be booted because he couldn't stop the bullying rhetoric. It has resulted in a very civil platform of immense value to everyone who participates.

No one objects to a civil debate of differing opinions, it is the rancor and name-calling, and winning the debate at the expense of civil discussion that makes it offensive.

[karkauai]

We seem to have lost our ability to engage in civil discourse. That doesn't mean that someone with a differing opinion should be banned from expressing an opinion...rather that he/she should be held to a standard of behavior that promotes honest, sober discussion. If Twitter or Facebook, or any other social media platform (CF) aspires to limit discussion in any way, it should be to promote healthy discussion, not to eliminate any particular point of view.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by karkauai

I rarely post on any social media, for this very reason. I do belong to one other group of owners of a particular make of sailboat. It is a delight because owners post in an effort to help others by sharing their experience and insight into sailing and maintenance and repairs of their boats. It rarely seems self-serving or confrontative, and when it does, ALL other group members immediately tell the offender to cease and desist, or the arguing parties to take their bickering off line. On only one occasion in 12 years has an offending member had to be booted because he couldn't stop the bullying rhetoric. It has resulted in a very civil platform of immense value to everyone who participates.

No one objects to a civil debate of differing opinions, it is the rancor and name-calling, and winning the debate at the expense of civil discussion that makes it offensive.

The piece I struggle with is the need for the moderators to close the thread rather than tossing or suspending the 'bad actor'. I really enjoy some of the difficult topics and can learn from all sides.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by lestersails

In an online forum, it gives the troll the impression that people are still there, participating with them. And ignoring them just doesn't work, IMHO. They keep at it, and often up the ante saying yet more outrageous and/or offensive things to the people who are trying to ignore them, until someone is compelled to respond. I really do appreciate folks like the mods and M.O'R. who counsel to ignore them. But it really, really rankles that they leave behind a record of ignorant and/or obnoxious rants that have gone unchallenged. I have before quoted Burke (though the attribution is uncertain) "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

I feel your pain, or your struggle, Lester. I do counsel avoidance as the primary response to trolls. As you succinctly explain, engagement is what these people want, so there is no direct response that doesn't give them exactly that. This only encourages more disruptive action.

I've found that if everyone really does ignore them -- talk around them -- most do give up eventually.

But I also profoundly understand the need to stand up to purveyors of false information, and to correct outright mis/disinformation. These are key tools of the troll, or the shyte-disturber (the two are not necessarily the same). I agree, it is important to counter false assertions. The challenge for us "good men" is to do so without engaging. Counter the claim, hopefully with clear evidence, and then go on ignoring the inevitable comebacks from the babblers.

BTW, I'm not very good at following my own advice . I get drawing into stupid banter with these people all the time. Partly that's because I try and give people the benefit of the doubt. But once it becomes clear they only mean to harm, I tune them out.

[siamese]

Originally Posted by patagoniadave

In my attempt to get up to speed on sailing and cruising, I have read hundreds of threads on this site, and thousands of posts, all in less than a month. Very condensed.

I cannot remember which thread it was, but a regular was lamenting how few people post here. Why are there so many lurkers who do not contribute? I have a theory.

This site is a cesspool of toxic communication between members. I have never seen so many negative, sarcastic, angry, cynical. condescending trolls and cyber bullies in one place. It makes it hard to read through old posts, and I can understand why people do not want to contribute.

I don't understand where it comes from? I find great peace and mental health in this lifestyle, even when things go wrong. If sailing makes you so upset, I do not understand why you continue to do it?

Huh? I'm here on almost a daily basis, but I must be reading the wrong posts, because I'm not seeing rampant cynicism and bullying. Sure, there's the occasional troll, but they're generally easy to spot and avoid.

All three of the sailing sites I regularly visit have an inexhaustible supply of misinformation. But I can walk down the dock at my marina and get the same misinformation. It's not malicious, it's just people being wrong.

It's easy enough to sort through a thread and figure out who knows what they're talking about.

One thing that make a thread go bad is for a member to comment on another member's response to a post. It pays to resist the powerful urge to correct another member, and just let the OP sort out the responses.

Although, I don't know if it was here or another site where I had to chime in and quote a responder and comment that I've never seen single response with more misinformation. I shouldn't have done it, and was amazed that the moderators didn't delete it.

P.S.
There are some notable individuals who are obsessed with displaying their political views. THAT annoys me. But, that's what the block feature is for.