I finally sold my old boat. Some lessons learned

[Jammer]

About three years ago I bought a 1975 Morgan 25. It was my first keelboat, and I wanted something inexpensive yet large enough to introduce my family to sailing. I paid $5500, which included a really good outboard motor worth nearly half that, and a trailer. Probably spent $2000 each of the first two years on maintenance and repairs, doing nearly all the work myself. This was routine stuff -- it wasn't a "project boat."



I recently sold the boat and trailer for $1000 having kept the outboard, which I am using on my new boat. I was using a broker and had the boat in his yard, and took several price reductions over the course of a year.



https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ea-239603.html


The trouble with the Morgan was that it just didn't have enough room in the cockpit. It was an IOR-era design with a pinched stern and we had trouble fitting four adults. The placement of the mainsheet was a good deal of the problem since it took away space that could have been used for seating.

The other problems with it were mostly solvable with money -- obsolete winches that needed replacement because service parts weren't available, deck fittings needing rebedding, older sails, wire halyards that were going to require a new, custom masthead fitting to upgrade, etc.



Our new boat is a 1985 Hunter 26, which I paid $5000 for. It came with a trailer and an outboard. I think we got a really good deal on it.


The Hunter is water ballasted. Doesn't sail nearly as well as the Morgan but can handle six adults in the cockpit and has a comparatively spacious cabin. The portlights were all leaking when I got it and most of them had to be replaced, and the deck fittings had to be rebedded. We like it for what we're doing now.




One lesson is that, at least in my area, it's hard to get money back out of 1970s boats. I'm glad I didn't have to cut up the Morgan and take it to the dump. I think, if I had chosen a somewhat larger budget and been a little more picky I'd have been better off financially in the long run.


I've also come to realize is that newer (90s+) trailer sailors in good shape don't stay on the market for long and aren't part of the inventory in the sale yards. So you have to watch the market for a while to see the best boats.

[goboatingnow]

Why would anyone expect to get money back “ out “ of a wasting asset! Lol

[Spot]

Glad you are out of the old and into the new so to speak.
I saw the add here and at the yard's website. I was tempted...but decided to complete the one I have before getting into anything bigger. Fixing all the stuff on my current boat will be my education as to what to look over better for next time. Are you going to slip or trailer for 2021?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Why would anyone expect to get money back “ out “ of a wasting asset! Lol

Realistically I would think that a 40 year old boat, worth $5000, would still be worth $5000 2-3 years later given that it received $2000 of maintenance and repair per year.

Originally Posted by Spot

Glad you are out of the old and into the new so to speak.
I saw the add here and at the yard's website. I was tempted...but decided to complete the one I have before getting into anything bigger. Fixing all the stuff on my current boat will be my education as to what to look over better for next time. Are you going to slip or trailer for 2021?

We'll be in a slip for 2021, on Pepin, but have a 3-week excursion to Lake Vermilion in the works in late summer.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Jammer

We'll be in a slip for 2021, on Pepin, but have a 3-week excursion to Lake Vermilion in the works in late summer.

Both of those sound like great plans, hope to see you out on Pepin (if my boat is willing and able...)

[Jim Cate]

Realistically I would think that a 40 year old boat, worth $5000, would still be worth $5000 2-3 years later given that it received $2000 of maintenance and repair per year.

Well, one way to interpret your data is that it wasn't really worth 5000 bucks when you bought her. Not meaning to demean the boat, but that's what the numbers show me. I agree that there should be no age related depreciation in such a vessel.

Jim

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, one way to interpret your data is that it wasn't really worth 5000 bucks when you bought her. Not meaning to demean the boat, but that's what the numbers show me. I agree that there should be no age related depreciation in such a vessel.

Jim

I agree. Another way to look at it is that the difference reflects the bid/ask spread in the market. I don't think I could have purchased a comparable boat for less money except by waiting around until someone started dropping the price, as I ultimately did when selling her.


Another factor is that I think the broker/yard, being paid on commission, is reluctant to allow prices to fall below a certain point even if it means that the boats do not sell. Their goal is to sell a boat to every buyer.

[ksuderman]

Thanks for sharing. It is always valuable to hear others' experiences.

Realistically I would think that a 40 year old boat, worth $5000, would still be worth $5000 2-3 years later

A pessimist might say that maybe that 40 year old boat wasn't worth $5k in the first place. However, you spent $5500 on the boat and $4000 on maintenance and sold it for $1000 and kept the $2000 motor. If you had the boat for 3+ years that is ~$2K per year which, in my books, isn't bad to introduce your family to sailing!

[Jammer]

Well, we sailed her for two years and she sat in the yard for a year, so it was $3k a year.

Nonetheless, it was worth it and, writ large, will not go down in my family history as a notably foolish or unrewarding expenditure. But I think we could have done better. We could probably, for example, have spent $10,000 on a boat and sold it for $10,000, with similar maintenance costs, and been both money ahead and had a better boat to sail upon for those two years.


That had more or less been our plan after selling her but the Hunter fell into our lap before we did much shopping.

[Mike OReilly]

It's an interesting reference point Jammer. My sense, as an old-boat owner, is that the market was stable for quite a long time (late 80s to 2008ish) for our aged boats. Boats that were 25+ years old had reached a low, stable, price. You could buy a boat, and with proper maintenance, could sell it again a number of years later for a similar dollar amount.

Then 2008 came along, and the bottom fell out of the used boat market. Since then old boats have been on a depreciating scale.

My sense is that lots of people got out of the cruising-level boat market after the crash. And at the same time, fewer younger folks are coming into the market. This has created a large glut of decent, older boats.

So we have high supply and low demand. Doesn't take an econ major to know what this will do for prices.

[grahamj]

All markets work pretty much the same way. If you want to deal now it costs money. If you have the money and don't want to wait that's fine if not.....

If you don't have the money but you have some time then don't be a buyer, wait for a seller. The other way round don't be a seller, wait for a buyer. At the lower end of any market the spread is enormous when expressed as a percentage.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Jammer

About three years ago I bought a 1975 Morgan 25. It was my first keelboat, and I wanted something inexpensive yet large enough to introduce my family to sailing. I paid $5500, which included a really good outboard motor worth nearly half that, and a trailer. Probably spent $2000 each of the first two years on maintenance and repairs, doing nearly all the work myself. This was routine stuff -- it wasn't a "project boat."

I recently sold the boat and trailer for $1000 having kept the outboard, which I am using on my new boat. I was using a broker and had the boat in his yard, and took several price reductions over the course of a year.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ea-239603.html

The trouble with the Morgan was that it just didn't have enough room in the cockpit. It was an IOR-era design with a pinched stern and we had trouble fitting four adults. The placement of the mainsheet was a good deal of the problem since it took away space that could have been used for seating.

The other problems with it were mostly solvable with money -- obsolete winches that needed replacement because service parts weren't available, deck fittings needing rebedding, older sails, wire halyards that were going to require a new, custom masthead fitting to upgrade, etc.

Our new boat is a 1985 Hunter 26, which I paid $5000 for. It came with a trailer and an outboard. I think we got a really good deal on it.

The Hunter is water ballasted. Doesn't sail nearly as well as the Morgan but can handle six adults in the cockpit and has a comparatively spacious cabin. The portlights were all leaking when I got it and most of them had to be replaced, and the deck fittings had to be rebedded. We like it for what we're doing now.

One lesson is that, at least in my area, it's hard to get money back out of 1970s boats. I'm glad I didn't have to cut up the Morgan and take it to the dump. I think, if I had chosen a somewhat larger budget and been a little more picky I'd have been better off financially in the long run.

I've also come to realize is that newer (90s+) trailer sailors in good shape don't stay on the market for long and aren't part of the inventory in the sale yards. So you have to watch the market for a while to see the best boats.

My son bought his first boat (Hunter 25 w/trailer & outboard) this summer for $2500 in Michigan. I don't know what the market is in your area but it sounds like you paid too much.

You need to research the hell out of your needs/wants before shopping for a boat. Trial and error via buying and selling is a losing proposition. Also, selling via a broker in that price range is ridiculous...try craigslist or eBay.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by ksuderman

T

.... you spent $5500 on the boat and $4000 on maintenance and sold it for $1000 and kept the $2000 motor. If you had the boat for 3+ years that is ~$2K per year which, in my books, isn't bad to introduce your family to sailing!

This ^^ is the right answer, IMHO

P$ = Purchase Price
M$ = Maintenance
S$ = Sell Price
T = Time (Years/Months of Ownership)

((P$ + M$) - S$)/T = Cost

I break it down to Cost Per Month, then use the heck out of it to justify that expense. (For the price of a cup of coffee a day.....)

[George DuBose]

Unfortunately, I don't think boats increase in value with age, like collectible autos.

I paid what my Pearson 36-1 sold for new, when she was 37 years old. I probably have spent 60K+ on renovations and upgrades. I would be lucky if I could sell her for what I paid for her.

But the satisfaction of having a safe, strong and comfortable boat that I can take anywhere the water is deep enough, well, that's priceless.

I will never sell her and I know that she will live longer than me...

[montyp]

Did the season effect the price?

I'm in the Twin Cities and can store boats in my yard. I've found that buying "the next" boat in the fall and selling the last boat in May/June is favorable. That said my wife and neighbors are not always super-thrilled about this method.

I'll look for a Hunter 26 on Pepin and give a Forest Gump wave