Is the 10% rule fact or fiction?

[valhalla360]

As with all budgeting, throw it in as as starting point but expect it to change as you get real data back in.

Unless you are dealing with free or nearly free boats, it's a good starting point.

I would clarify that maintenance doesn't include a full refit on a recently purchased boat. That would be more appropriately included in the purchase price.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It is complete friction. Boats of similar size cost about the same regardless of cost. And high end boats cost pretty much the same as lower cost boats.

I agree 100%.

If you're doing your own work, which most do, a 45 foot gold plated whatchacallit will cost pretty much the same as a 45 foot copper whozit, to maintain. The fancy manufacturers still use Yanmar, Volvo, Raymarine, B&G, North Sails, Mack Sails, whatever. So that $500,000 45 foot Halberg rassy will cost very similar, for maintenance, as the $150,000 45 foot Hunter. (Cats will be more expensive than monohulls of similar length, for maintenance too.)

If they were both bought with new sails, they'll both need new sails in a similar span of time. If the engines were neglected, they'll cost the same to repair/replace. The same goes for bilge pumps, windlasses (for similar displacement boats), rigging (for similar displacement boats) auto pilots etcetera.

I'd say displacement is a better indicator of maintenance cost, overall. Bigger engines, sails, rigging...

If you're cruising full time, and allow for $10,000 a year, you'll be fine 99% of time, and usually spend less. I'd say most years we spent less than $5000, for our 40 foot cruiser, 10 years ago.

That sum does NOT include insurance, as that can vary quite a lot, depending on the boat's value, and the options you choose. Insurance will usually cost less than 2% of the value of the boat, for full coverage.

Dockage is NOT maintenance.


Cheers.
Paul.

[jmschmidt]

Fiction.

[Cheechako]

It can vary a lot. For me, NO. It's much much lower than 10%. But here's the deal: I pretty much rebuild my boats before going cruising. So once I go, I really don't need much at all for years. (I guess if you amortize that into the years of use it changes everything. But I think of it more as "cost of purchase".)
ie: I can buy a new boat for $300k or a used one for $120k and spend $50k rebuilding totaling $170k.

Another example:
I had friends that cruised the Caribe for 3 years. They bought an imperfect boat for $120k. They refused to fix anything that wasn't actually broken. They spent only $2000-2500 on a new main sail while cruising. They returned to FL and sold the boat for $120k. Cost of cruising per year was: $800 a year for that mainsail, or .007 per year or .7% per year.

[TomThumb]

Having done similar planning, with judicious use of many of the multiple You Tubers who post 'how much does it cost' info, I would offer that 10% is still a useful starting point. The O'Kelly's, Sailing Ruby Rose, MJ Sailing, Sailing Soulianis et al have specific episodes and monthly updates. Lot's of threads here on 'budget' too.

The two factors are about the boat and the lifestyle.

As you've read, the boat costs vary wildly and so do the initial and ongoing costs. Production v custom, ease of access and availability of parts, complexity of hull and systems etc all make major impacts. Arguably more expensive designs tend to have 'more elaborate systems' which simpler, cheaper boats don't like Air con, in mast furling etc. Even if this is 10yrealy for standing rigging and 30 for a mast, you need to plan for when those big hits will come by and budget it in, even if it means a savings plan for the period leading up to them.

The missing factor is lifestyle. You Tuber's Sailing Yacht Florence have done a lot on costs/ budget and show how cheaply they can live. But that means they avoid marinas, eating out, have simple systems, have free experiences and so on. They prefer remote places and isolation. They are also annoyingly young... A lifestyle if you want to port-hop, party in every town, berth alongside routinely, enjoy good food and wine, do touristy things, leave the boat out-of-season, travel elsewhere in retirement etc and so on comes with a different set of costs. Locations and destinations also matter a lot. Asia is generally cheap, Scandinavia expensive. The point of the 10% is only a baseline but I'd suggest that as the boat price goes up, so too do lifestyle expectations, so while you might not spend 40K a year on the 400K boat, you might all-up...

The other way to come at this is to start with living and lifestyle budget for a couple not working then subtract some rent/ mortgage/ accom/ car and other costs then replace line items as appropriate with the boat ones.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by wanderlust87

Hello all!

My husband and I are working on an 8-year plan to purchase and long-term liveaboard a bluewater sailboat while traveling the world. We are trying to plan a realistic budget/financial plan for our boat/life (are still debating monohull vs cat), and the current debate is the 10% maintenance cost rule. I've heard from multiple sources that if you are doing the majority of maintenance yourself you should expect to spend 10% of the total cost of your boat annually on repairs/upkeep.

Obviously some years will (hopefully) be much less than this and some years will be more, but generally- have liveaboard cruisers found this general rule to be true?

Next, how does this rule hold up when comparing similar boats of similar sizes? For example, a 1980s Hallberg-Rassy 45 vs an early-00s boat of the same make (it would make sense that the 80s boat would be more expensive to maintain than a newer model, but the purchase price of the boat would be less).

Any advice much appreciated!

This is a very tricky question. In a perfect world you would know how much to allot each month to cover all upcoming maintenance expenses much like a Condo HOA fee without needing a special assessment because the motor quit. Unfortunately with a sail boat this will depend greatly on the condition of the boat when you get it. Higher end boats like the Hallbergs will not be as prone to structural issues as a production boat but will still need new sails. and standing rigging periodically (among other things). If you started with a new boat, it could take 20 years to get an accurate reading on the monthly maintenance requirements. Use 10% as your initial number until you know better. If you're sailing 20,000 nm a year, you're monthly maintenance number will be substantially higher than a weekend sailor's would be (though your bar tab will be less )

[Rapanui]

The 10% rule is pretty arbitary for the reasons stated by previous posters. The scientific way to approach this is to list all things on the boat that could need periodic maintenance, refurbishment and replacement along with costs and estimated time on a spreadsheet of cost vs year and run that for at least the longest anticipated lifetime of any item. Sum the costs and divide by the duration to give you an average yearly cost. If you only intend to keep the boat say 5 years, stop the sum there.

There is a wealth of knowledge on CF about lifetimes, and you will have to take a view on say how many hours/years you can get out of engines, sails, rudder bearings, teak decks, fridges, antifoul and so on.
The answer will not be 'right', but over time, the average should be fairly close. For what its worth, I think that 10% will normally be way too high where the owner does the maintenance, and way under if you let the professionals do it.

[twig]

I would say for maintenance only. When I bought my 38 foot boat for 70k and thought no way would I spend 7k a year on upkeep. I do it easily each year. Throw in insurance and slip fee and haul out and storage and I have another 7k per year.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by wanderlust87

Hello all!

My husband and I are working on an 8-year plan to purchase and long-term liveaboard a bluewater sailboat while traveling the world. We are trying to plan a realistic budget/financial plan for our boat/life (are still debating monohull vs cat), and the current debate is the 10% maintenance cost rule. I've heard from multiple sources that if you are doing the majority of maintenance yourself you should expect to spend 10% of the total cost of your boat annually on repairs/upkeep.

Obviously some years will (hopefully) be much less than this and some years will be more, but generally- have liveaboard cruisers found this general rule to be true?

Next, how does this rule hold up when comparing similar boats of similar sizes? For example, a 1980s Hallberg-Rassy 45 vs an early-00s boat of the same make (it would make sense that the 80s boat would be more expensive to maintain than a newer model, but the purchase price of the boat would be less).

Any advice much appreciated!

You are on the correct track by planning ahead rather than just jumping into this adventure. While I'm sure you will be able to do the normal ongoing MAINTENANCE I'm assuming you two don't have a lot of boating experience and suspect more dollars will be spent having the marina do the REPAIRS. Do you have the tools and expertise to complete the latter?

A lot depends on what you start off with. Generally speaking bigger boats and catamarans cost more to buy and keep up. Also as someone else pointed out, beyond the fiberglass (which pretty much lasts forever) everything else is reasonably the same manufacturers except perhaps the specific model number under consideration. Using your example the RIGHT 80s boat would be a good start if systems were in very good condition or recently replaced compared to a early-00s boat with tired equipment...the newer recently completed around the world boat may not be the best choice.

Don't go overboard or overvalue modern electronics. As long they work, are reliable, and get you to your destination they should suffice. The same goes for creature comforts.

You can't go wrong rounding up that number for surprises.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[SailSonoma]

I just opened my maintenance tracking sheet and added up my expenses over the last 6.5 years, averaged that, and divided by the cost I paid for the boat. Came out almost exactly 10%

She is a mid 80's Bristol 41.1, in excellent condition when I bought her. My tracking sheet includes only maintenance and improvement/investment items. No other operating costs. As others have noted, the annual costs vary widely, especially when I've planed an extended range cruise in that year.

For me the rule of the is spot on.

[Smooth Cruiser]

10% is a good starting point - although of course as everyone says there are variables..

To get a feel for how quickly costs can mount up - do a few simple calcs. Work out what a new set of sails would cost for your boat. They might have a life of 10 years so divide by 10 for an annual "allowance". Similarly standing rigging. Then the engine, do the same, maybe the life is 15 years but make sure you include all the costs of gearbox props, cutlass bearings etc. Window coverings, biminis, shade awnings etc do the same. Dinghy do the same. Anchor winch do the same. Anchor and chain too. Winches. Jib furler. Toilet. Water pump. Electronics. That's just the big ticket items, there are lots of bits and pieces too - shackles, sheets, lazy jacks, lifelines. All have a life and all will break and need replacing at some point.

You could very quickly get to many thousands per year as provision for big ticket items alone based on expected replacement life. Use the 10% and you will be pretty much in the ballpark.

[sailorboy1]

10% of a $20-40k boat may be a reason number. But 10% of a $100k one isn't and for a $500k one really isn't!

You can always find the match. Doesn't mean the % thing means anything. Otherwise a new $1m boat has a lot more maintenance than a 1980 $30k boat and that is insane thinking .......... IMO

[billgewater]

If you spend a lot of time in a marina, then rental costs can be awful, but maintenance will be limited and easier to do. If you spend all your time at sea, then rental disappears but maintenance will increase. In Aus. typical annual rentals for a 14 m boat would be about $12 000. You can probably buy a reasonable yacht for ten times that. So there's 10% down the drain already. Insurance companies will get you whatever you do.
Others have listed the possible scenarios, but I would suggest that if you keep that 10% in the bank it will probably be enough. Just be careful. Be informed. Get some cruising experience and talk to cruisers.

[Kd9truck]

Not if you do the work your self...Or you neglect your vessel...or you don’t use it,
(my gut estimate is 75% of the active sailing fleet does not maintain the condition they bought there vessels in)
If you want to bring it to Bristol condition and keep it there. Or you plan to go off shore it will cost you more than 10% to get it there, I would rather set a vessel up from scratch with circumnavigation capabilities than buy one that has done it with the systems still on it, strictly because of the wear and tear, but I am just a costal cruiser,


good luck mate.

[David B]

Originally Posted by wanderlust87

Hello all!

My husband and I are working on an 8-year plan to purchase and long-term liveaboard a bluewater sailboat while traveling the world. We are trying to plan a realistic budget/financial plan for our boat/life (are still debating monohull vs cat), and the current debate is the 10% maintenance cost rule. I've heard from multiple sources that if you are doing the majority of maintenance yourself you should expect to spend 10% of the total cost of your boat annually on repairs/upkeep.

Obviously some years will (hopefully) be much less than this and some years will be more, but generally- have liveaboard cruisers found this general rule to be true?

Next, how does this rule hold up when comparing similar boats of similar sizes? For example, a 1980s Hallberg-Rassy 45 vs an early-00s boat of the same make (it would make sense that the 80s boat would be more expensive to maintain than a newer model, but the purchase price of the boat would be less).

Any advice much appreciated!

Well for what it's worth, we bought new in 2012.
Insurance - 0.5 to 0.75%
Maintenance - 0.05%
Off-season lift, wash, cradle, monthly battery charge etc - 0.5 to 0.75%
Improvements - 0.1 to 1%

So the above represents all costs other than marinas, fuel etc.
Total 1.15% to 2.55%

Qualifying notes:
We have a full winter cover, and strip all running rigging etc off
We have full teak decks and re-seal with Semco most years (4 hours a year)
We have Coppercoat, so do not paint the bottom every year (and will probably get 18 or more years out of the single application)
We polish the hull and stainless etc each year ourselves
Basic oil changes on engine and generator are done by me.
From time to time we get a mechanic in to do a full service
We prepare the boat ourselves for winter storage, and for return to the water.

At some stage, we will need for insurance purposes, to replace the standing rigging. I estimate that year, the percentage will bump to 3 or 4%. Similarly for any sail replacement, but that is some years away.
Replacement of other fittings will become more frequent as our boat ages, but bought wisely, and fitted ourselves, I do not see anything much more than an extra percent or two - even for big things like a new saildrive leg, or something nasty like that. A new boat cover, new bimini and dodger is the biggest one looming, and that will bump to 5 or 6% - unless we go for a sail, in which case we could get it done for 1.5% (it would be a weeks sail, mostly at sea, so probably not if my First Mate has a say in it - which she has ).

That's our perspective, but of course it depends on the age of the boat, the condition of the boat, how much you are able to do yourself, where you are located and how much you paid for the boat in the first place.