$6,000 boat too cheap?

[PaulCrawhorn]

There is no absolute rule.

You need to ballpark the total cost to get back to shipshape.

USUALLY the lower the acquisition price, the nore you have to spend in the first couple years to get her there.

And forget money the time and energy spent doing that, stops you getting out there.

Nothing is more expensive than a free boat.

HOWEVER some do get lucky!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by cdreid

Theres a 25 here for sale for er.. 1900? Maybe 1400. Outfitted to hell i just dont have time to go look. Boats in that range are Dirt cheap. People buy them to play around with on weekends .. no longer have time and sell them after they sit in the yard a few years.

Id find one that had a trailer.. unless you want to pay some sleazy marina $$$ to let it sit there.
At that price a surveyor is ridiculous though these folks are looking out for you. That's the price of an old haggard used car.

Others buy them to sail for several (10-15) years across large bays, on ocean hops, and crossing oceans, but you have to buy the correct small boat for that.

See Atom Voyages Small Cruising Boat list. https://atomvoyages.com/planning/cla...ers-list-html/

I'm still sailing my Bristol 27 which was $2,000 purchase price, and this guy so far has crossed a couple oceans on his Contessa 26.

Bristol 27 in sling.

Contessa 27 on stands in driveway

[GrowleyMonster]

If it had a good diesel and two complete suits of good sails at that price and no major or expensive problems to fix, I would jump on it. With an outboard only, it might not be a very competitive price, again depending on what all is wrong with the boat. I have seen these boats go for $1k and I am sure that there have been some given away, just haven't seen it. My very similar Cal 2-27 built in 1976 with a running Atomic 4 raw water cooled engine and 10 sails (PO raced the boat and had all sorts of tracks and poles and other gear for the boat) for $2k cash in a transferable $279 per quarter slip. I lived aboard that boat for 7 years, sailed it quite a bit, and definitely got my money's worth out of it. The Catalina 27 doesn't have the bridge deck in the cockpit, is a little less beamy and not as full up forward so not quite as roomy, but otherwise very similar and like the Cal, is a great boat for solo sailing. But they are very common and getting long in the tooth. Very nice ones can go $15k but generally $6k sounds a bit high with no diesel, not having seen the boat. Don't fall in love with the boat until you own it and are stuck with it anyhow. A survey for a boat that cheap is almost the tail wagging the dog, but it is possible that your insurance company and maybe even your marina will want a survey anyhow. Take a GOOD look at the boat along with a friend or two whose knowledge you respect. If it looks like a possible winner, discuss getting the price down a bit, conditional on survey of course. Those are great little boats, but they usually go cheap unless they have been repowered with a new diesel or something, or are in very good condition or have lots of nice new sails and stuff. Always remember, there will be other boats and it should not be a heartbreaker if you don't get that one. Mainly, offer what you are willing to pay, let the seller offer the boat for what he is willing to accept, and if you agree, then it is a good deal. My value suggestions are not worth much, not having seen the boat and not knowing how bad you want it or how deep your pockets are. Same could be said for anybody else weighing in. Take replies as suggestions, not gospel.

[jasrclark]

Try sailboatlisting.com

[Setbud]

Hi there.

I have owned two Catalina 30's, and also sailed on a 27. I am in MDR.


My thoughts about the Catalina 27 you are considering;


Catalinas are great used boats because you can get parts for them and answers about them. Catalina Direct and Catalina for parts, Catalina Yachts for help, many users and groups....there is a lot of help for the new owner.


Tiller vs. wheel.
Listen carefully to your wife. If she is really saying "I'm not going to be joining you much" HEAR HER ! Many of us have thought our wives/kids would learn to love sailing as much as we do. Rarely happens, especially if there is a fear of water, cold, tipping over etc. Hear her.

If you are going to have family in the cockpit, a wheel is easier. It only occupies the space that it takes up, whereas a tiller, because it moves around to work, winds up taking up the whole cockpit! People are always moving around getting out of your way or are in your way. For two people who are actively sailing the boat, not a problem. For singlehanding, a tiller is better than a wheel I think. (Both of my boats have had wheels and I single hand a lot, so it can be done. It's just easier with a tiller in my opinion.


Keel bolts on Catalinas can't really be fixed without investing major money. Probably the owner or someone before him added the long lag bolts that Catalina Direct sells as a kit. But if the keel had problems that concerned a previous owner enough to do this, (which many older Catalinas do) you might want to pass.


Inboard vs. outboard; I had an outboard on a lake in Geiorgia. It was great. I have taken a 30' boat with an outboard to Catalina. Trying to get the mooring with the motor coming out of the water over and over because of the swell convinced me that I would never buy a boat with an outboard on a 30' boat. A Catalina 22, sure. A 27 on a lake, sure. A 27 or 30 in the ocean.....not so much. Marina Del Rey would not be so bad, but I have sailed into and out of Channel Islands Harbor enough to know that it's an entirely different environment there. It gets a lot more bumpy, frequently. There is more traffic at MDR, but the conditions are a little lighter generally.



I looked at the ad. The boat looks pretty rough. You can't believe anything the owner says. He may not be lying, but he may also be used to the condition of his boat and may think it's fine when it's really not.


Dolphin Marina may not require a survey or insurance from you, but most of them in MDR will. And that means you will have to have the boat hauled and surveyed. THIS IS A BIG DEAL in MDR is my experiance. If you buy the boat and then ask if you can take over the slip and the answer is "NO" you are in a pickle. I have seen this problem over and over. Get a commitment from the Dock Master before you make the deal.



No used boat is going to be perfect. Heck, even new boats have a lot to fix! But at the lower end of the market, which $6,000 is in our area of the world, you may be doing a lot of work.



There have been some comments on trailering....the Catalina 25' is the largest easily trailerable boat. It was designed for that. It's narrow enough to go down the highway and light enough to tow. Good reasons to choose one of those instead of a 27' if you plan to do that. But that makes it less than ideal where you are planning to sail. It will not sail as flat as a deeper and heavier boat. And if you are going to launch your boat and take it out of the water each time you sail it.....I don't think you will be sailing often. Just my opinion. But I sail at least once a week, so I can't imagine doing that.


One other thing....the boat you are looking at has hanked on sails. For a new and possibly single handing sailor, I would definitely put a roller reefing and furling headsail set-up at the top of your must-have list. For a bunch of reasons....


Good luck! Try to sail with as many people on as many different boats as possible in the meantime. There is nothing like that for a better understanding of what you really want.




Steve

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Setbud

Inboard vs. outboard; I had an outboard on a lake in Geiorgia. It was great. I have taken a 30' boat with an outboard to Catalina. Trying to get the mooring with the motor coming out of the water over and over because of the swell convinced me that I would never buy a boat with an outboard on a 30' boat.

Steve

There are always alternatives with outboards on sailboats which are great BTW because you can replace an worn out old diesel with a new 2022 very efficient 5 hp or 9.9 hp outboard.

Also you need the 25" extra long shaft and a bracket with long throw.

I think mine is 11"-14" with 4 slots

As far as the mooring, learn to sail up to it if your outboard is coming out of the water.

This is where learning to sail on a boat without an engine comes in.

I had four sailboats without engines and completed several 100 mile races on them before getting my Good Old Bristol 27 w/outboard.

My 58 lb. 5 hp 4 stroke 25" extra long shaft outboard replaced an old 352 lb 10 hp Bukh Diesel

No more bad smell. No more oil leaking into the bilge and the outboard was much quieter and with less vibration

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

...It's an IOR era masthead sloop. Being from the IOR era it will be tender and will sail best with crew sitting on the high rail to balance the boat. Being a masthead sloop you will have heavier jibsheets.

Jammer, you make some good points in your longer comment but this paragraph (above) is incorrect.

The Catalina 27 is a great boat and in no way similar to any IOR boat. Don't compare it to your Morgan.

The Catalina is not tender. It is a bit underpowered and sort of heavy and has a substantial Bal/Disp ratio, ideal for a beginning sailor. It won't need crew weight on the rail. It has a small J measurement and a small forsail area. The jib sheets can me small and easy to hold.

Plus it has a very moderate hull shape, no extremes.

On top of that it is roomy and easy to handle.

This is an ideal boat void of any nasty habits.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Jammer, you make some good points in your longer comment but this paragraph (above) is incorrect.

The Catalina 27 is a great boat and in no way similar to any IOR boat. Don't compare it to your Morgan.

The Catalina is not tender. It is a bit underpowered and sort of heavy and has a substantial Bal/Disp ratio, ideal for a beginning sailor. It won't need crew weight on the rail. It has a small J measurement and a small forsail area. The jib sheets can me small and easy to hold.

Plus it has a very moderate hull shape, no extremes.

On top of that it is roomy and easy to handle.

This is an ideal boat void of any nasty habits.

That has always been my impression, too. I was somewhat puzzled on reading the post saying they were tender. It has always seemed to me to be a very kind and easy boat to manage, while still giving satisfying if not exactly overwhelming performance by today's standards and hey, you can go to windward! If they were lemons, then they would never have built and sold 6,662 of them over 20 years. (according to saildata.com) There really are a LOT of these boats, and they all found willing buyers. The only reason I prefer the Cal in that size and price bracket is the vee berth is so much bigger, and the keel isn't bolted on. The Catalina actually seems to sail faster, to me, than the Cal, especially with the tall rig.

[Welti]

Wow, I got so much useful information. Lots to chew on!

[Welti]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

$6000 may be too much, depending upon the condition.

There are a lot of neglected/abandoned boats for sale out there.

Killer items:
- Corroded keel bolts (not replaceable on a Catalina and a safety issue)


Cheers

Interesting, the seller claims the keel bolts were replaced in 2015.

[Welti]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Two thoughts.
1. Catalina Direct is an incredibly useful source. To have an ability to one stop shop for nearly all the parts can save the owner of an older boat tons of time. It is a huge argument in favor of Catalina.
2. I am 100% on board with those who say you have to see it in person. I bought my little boat remotely and thought I could crack that nut by paying a surveyor to look at it for me. Wrong. He did an an atrociously bad job (name available on PM). Without any evidence, my suspicion is that I paid him to go have coffee with the boat dealer. There were so many things wrong with the boat when I did arrive to pick it up that I was furious. There is no substitute for your eyeballs on the boat.

I have heard similar stories!

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Welti

Interesting, the seller claims the keel bolts were replaced in 2015.

Interesting.

Maybe it is different on different years / models.(?)

My keel is 4500 lbs. of solid lead with the keel bolts (actually J-shaped threaded rods) installed into the molten lead when the keel is cast. Only way to "fix" bad keel bolts is to drill a very long hole into the keel and screw in long "lag" bolts into the lead.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-...earchResults=1


I know some keels (Beneteau is an example) which use cast iron keels . These keels have holes threaded in them for the bolts. The bolts are replaceable. If you have a cast iron keel, (shoal version) they may be replaceable.

cheers.

[Welti]

Well, it is a moot point now. I bought a boat. I got a very nice Cal 2-25. Small but in extremely good condition. Fairly heavy fin keel, spade rudder, wide-ish beam for her length, and generally well regarded. New but basic sail inventory, new running rigging, dry as a bone. It has a fairly thick hull. Best of all it came with a slip, no waiting list. Nice new outboard with electric start and electric lift. Lots of mods for single-handing and bottom paint too. It has "Tides Mast Track" system that makes raising the main super easy. Recent survey, including haul out, maintenance records, the whole shebang. It was significantly more expensive than that $6000 one I had been eyeing, but it feels right.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Welti

Well, it is a moot point now. I bought a boat. I got a very nice Cal 2-25. Small but in extremely good condition. Fairly heavy fin keel, spade rudder, wide-ish beam for her length, and generally well regarded. New but basic sail inventory, new running rigging, dry as a bone. It has a fairly thick hull. Best of all it came with a slip, no waiting list. Nice new outboard with electric start and electric lift. Lots of mods for single-handing and bottom paint too. It has "Tides Mast Track" system that makes raising the main super easy. Recent survey, including haul out, maintenance records, the whole shebang. It was significantly more expensive than that $6000 one I had been eyeing, but it feels right.

Congratulations! This could be a lot less problems for you which could mean a lot sooner sailing. Good luck.