$6,000 boat too cheap?

[Welti]

Perhaps I could just ask then, what would be a good first boat for me, in the 27' range? I'd like to get my wife interested, but she is kind of afraid of water, so thinking about a boat that does not heel too much - and I will be single-handing a lot. Would LOVE a catamaran, but too much $$$. I'm thinking weekends, possibly longer by myself. Thinking about wheel instead of tiller, only because I think my wife and kids would be able to pick it up slightly easier. Again, area is Channel Islands, MDR etc.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Welti

Perhaps I could just ask then, what would be a good first boat for me, in the 27' range? I'd like to get my wife interested, but she is kind of afraid of water, so thinking about a boat that does not heel too much - and I will be single-handing a lot. Would LOVE a catamaran, but too much $$$. I'm thinking weekends, possibly longer by myself. Thinking about wheel instead of tiller, only because I think my wife and kids would be able to pick it up slightly easier. Again, area is Channel Islands, MDR etc.

Well, nothing wrong with the Cat 27, but there are lots of similar designs of a similar age and commanding similar prices. For a first boat, any of them would really do the job you describe.

However, in boats that size tiller steering is much to be preferred. A wheel takes up WAY too much of the cockpit and is not at all needed. Getting the hang of tiller steering takes the average person perhaps 10 minutes of practice... and the same instincts are needed if you want to drive an outboard powered dinghy. I would really lean away from a wheel in such a boat.

In larger boats a wheel is more appropriate and easier to incorporate in a good cockpit layout. We went from a tiller steered 30 footer to a wheel steered 36 and felt it a good thing at that time.

Good luck in your search.

Jim

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Welti

Perhaps I could just ask then, what would be a good first boat for me, in the 27' range?

Does the boat have to be trailerable or are you going to leave it in one spot?


Is draft (minimum depth of water that will float the boat) a concern?

I'd like to get my wife interested, but she is kind of afraid of water, so thinking about a boat that does not heel too much - and I will be single-handing a lot.

My wife learned to swim while in her 50s. This is rare and I count my blessings.


Boats with a keel (which the Catalina 27 has) rather than a centerboard or a combination keel and centerboard will ordinarily heel less. Boats from the post-IOR era will heel less. Look at newer boats (mid 80s+).


For single-handing, the most important thing is an autopilot. For a tiller-steered boat you can add a tiller pilot inexpensively. A roller furling jib will help. Having some means of setting and dousing the main under control from the cockpit will help however these systems are all complex and are not necessary if you have an autopilot.

Thinking about wheel instead of tiller, only because I think my wife and kids would be able to pick it up slightly easier. Again, area is Channel Islands, MDR etc.

Follow Jim's advice and get a tiller-steered boat. Anyone can steer with a tiller, it's easier and cheaper to add an autopilot, it's one less thing to fail, and you can (in most cases) fold it out of the way when at the dock to open up space in the cockpit. The main advantage of wheel steering on boats 30+ feet is that, in combination with mid-boom sheeting, it opens up space in the front 2/3 of the cockpit while sailing.


Other things you should be considering closely in your shopping:

• Is the cockpit uncluttered or is there a fuel tank and mainsheet right in the way?
• Can you reach the primaries (winches) during a tack without moving everyone or letting go the tiller?
• If you will be swimming from the boat, is there good access to the water (usually requires a wider transom or a spade rudder)?
• Do you have reasonable access to the outboard motor controls from the cockpit?
• Can the outboard motor be steered? (vastly improves maneuverability while docking)
• Is there a bimini? (you will want one at some point)
• Is a trailer, cradle, or stands included?
• Are there signs of deck leaks? Mildew, wet areas

Generally these are all areas where you will do better with a newer boat, but a Catalina 27 isn't a terrible choice if it is in good shape, has been kept up to date with upgrades over the years, and has had some of these features added by prior owners.

[thomm225]

Not sure exactly what type sailboat you are searching for but there's lots of good advice on the Atom Voyages site for a first time buyer plus a list of good small cruising boats most all without keel bolts.

Like I said I got mine for $2,000 but almost immediately spend $1550 for a new 5 hp 25" extra long shaft outboard and adjustable bracket

$1600 for a new mainsail, and did a bottom job on it which cost about $350 I'd say. One gallon of the paint was $225 or so

My boat came with GPS (2), Depth, VHF, 2 main anchors with chain and 250' rode, almost new jib, autopilot, dodger, etc

Pictures are after I repainted it after having it for a few years plus with replacement dodger after sailing it for 8 years

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/cla...ers-list-html/

https://atomvoyages.com/

From the Atom Voyages Site:

A final word of advice to the novice sailor – resist the temptation to undertake a major refit and extensive modifications on your new old boat right at the start. It’s best to make only the obvious repairs needed and go out and sail locally and on some limited coastal passages to learn exactly what is and what is not needed for you. Otherwise you may end up spending years and many thousands of dollars more than expected modifying your boat and then find out on your first ocean crossing that the boat is not right for you or those great ideas you had during the refurbishment did not work out that well at sea.

[Welti]

I'm down to get the tiller, and do see the many advantages. Also I guess it is easier to "feel" the boat with tiller rather than wheel. I HAVE been wondering about the trailer aspect of all this. I don't have a place right where I live to keep the trailer, so would have to find a storage solution. Mostly I think I'll just be day sailing and weekend cruising around the Oxnard/Ventura/Channel Island area and maybe down to Santa Monica area. Probably could do with a keel just fine. Not going to be beaching the boat or anything like that.

Now I have a much better idea what to look for!

[MarkSF]

Check out Don Casey's book on "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat"

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Welti

I don't have a place right where I live to keep the trailer, so would have to find a storage solution.

Most marinas offer trailer/stand/cradle storage as part of the annual slip rental.


Among those that do not, most offer this service for a modest additional fee.


There are many trailers out there that aren't really roadworthy but are perfectly functional as "cradles plus," that offer stable storage for the boat plus some mobility around the marina or local area.

[kindrunnermike]

Few key thoughts:
1. You never really know the state of a used boat until you see it in person.
2. Used fiberglass monohull sailboats pre-2000 that are not holy grail boats (very few small boats) can be great deals even further last few high inflation years as they are not the shinny penny that most people seem to be attracted to.
3. If you purchase a good example of what you like, don’t overpay and make it right (reasonably) there will be someone who will pay you more than you think you will get a few years later for your pride and joy. There is a minimum number these boat change hands at when they are taken care of.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Welti

I'm looking at a Craigslist ad for 27' Catalina tall rig, for $6000. There are a few pics, I mean it doesn't look like a complete wreck. Comes with a slip at Mrakin Del Rey for $350 a month. Has an 8 hp outboard. I plan to go look, and it will be my first boat inspection. I plan to ask about the keel bolts, any accidents, maybe walk all around on the hull and feel for soft spots, flooding damage, standing rigging (frayed cables and so on).

Basically I'm wondering, is it too cheap to be for real? I'm decided on a 27 foot plus or minus size for my first boat, and 27' Catalinas are not too commonly available it seems. 25 and 30 more common. I'm hoping that means owner are keeping them and they are in demand.

If you can locate a Sabre 27, hands down a better quality boat compared to Cat and mid 80s and below in the same price range. I had one for 7 yrs, before upgrading to a larger boat.

[sinnerman]

$6000 may be too much, depending upon the condition.

There are a lot of neglected/abandoned boats for sale out there.

Killer items:
- Corroded keel bolts (not replaceable on a Catalina and a safety issue)
- Engine Issues -expensive to repair unless you are a mechanic
- Hull/Rudder Issues - damage, osmosis blistering (common on early Catalinas)
- Standard Rigging / Running Rigging / Sails / Furler need replacement ($$)

Look for indications if the boat was once flooded (waterline marks on the bulkheads)

If you do not do your own repairs and pay someone else, it can become costly.

I paid slightly more than this for a Cat 30 and have spent more than double that in repairs to get it up to speed.

Cheers

[Jammer]

I have walked away from a number of free boats because I couldn't afford them.

[lestersails]

Two thoughts.
1. Catalina Direct is an incredibly useful source. To have an ability to one stop shop for nearly all the parts can save the owner of an older boat tons of time. It is a huge argument in favor of Catalina.
2. I am 100% on board with those who say you have to see it in person. I bought my little boat remotely and thought I could crack that nut by paying a surveyor to look at it for me. Wrong. He did an an atrociously bad job (name available on PM). Without any evidence, my suspicion is that I paid him to go have coffee with the boat dealer. There were so many things wrong with the boat when I did arrive to pick it up that I was furious. There is no substitute for your eyeballs on the boat.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Thousands of them were made in the 70s and 80s.


Locally the general experience with smaller boats is that 70s boats are not saleable regardless of condition and 80s boats can be sold for a few thousand dollars if in good condition. Local markets vary so maybe it's different where you are.


It's an IOR era masthead sloop. Being from the IOR era it will be tender and will sail best with crew sitting on the high rail to balance the boat. Being a masthead sloop you will have heavier jibsheets.


To be worth $6000 it should not need much and you shouldn't have to spend a long weekend rebedding all the deck fittings and another long weekend rebedding all the portlights.


Be aware that service parts for 70s era winches are, in most cases, no longer available. If that is the case with yours you can clean and lubricate them but if you loose a spring or a pawl is worn out you're looking at over $1000 for a new winch in the sizes you will need for the primaries.


While everyone's financial situation is different and I don't know what yours is, you will probably be better off in the long run buying a newer boat in better condition, because you will spend less on maintenance and recover a greater percentage of your purchase price when it is time to sell. That is especially true if you are new to this and are treating this as a "starter boat" from which you will either move on to something you like better, or exit the activity, as the case may be in a few years. Keep in mind that you'll be spending $6000 a year on slip rental, insurance, and maintenance and that the purchase price is a relatively minor factor in overall cost of the activity.


5 years ago I bought a 1975 Morgan 25 for about $6000, spent $2000 a year on maintenance and upgrades, and sold it for $1200 two years later.


3 yhears ago, I bought a 1991 Hunter 26 for about $6000, spent $2000 a year on maintenance and upgrades, and sold it for $10,000 two years later.


The difference was that the Morgan was an IOR boat and had a bunch of problems that would have been expensive to solve, among them: obsolete winches, an obsolete wire halyard system with a failing masthead pulley box that needed a fully custom-made replacement to be properly serviceable, leaking portlights, a leaking hatch for which suitable weatherstripping is no longer made, and a troublesome centerboard mechanism that really needed a new custom-made stainless steel rod in the stuffing box (because the old nylon one had swollen from absorbing water over the years and was therefore prone to jamming).


It was also, like yours, a very heavy and high-draft boat to haul on a trailer.



The Hunter, while not perfect, had better parts availability and a larger cockpit. Everything leaked on it too when I bought it but the difference was that I was able to get replacement portlights that fit the existing cutouts, and parts for the winches and rigging.


Be picky, there are lots of good boats out there, but they tend not to stay on the market long.

Are you saying all boats built in the 70s are tippy? The Catalina 27 is nothing like an IOR design like say a San Juan 28. The Catalina is relatively flat bottomed and the San Juan looks more like a log underneath.

Our club has the tall rig and this is great for light air venues like Puget Sound and southern California. Not that they hold a candle to ULDBs with SA/D of 30 or more like an Olson 30.

[windcastle1]

Originally Posted by Welti

I'm looking at a Craigslist ad for 27' Catalina tall rig, for $6000. There are a few pics, I mean it doesn't look like a complete wreck. Comes with a slip at Mrakin Del Rey for $350 a month. Has an 8 hp outboard. I plan to go look, and it will be my first boat inspection. I plan to ask about the keel bolts, any accidents, maybe walk all around on the hull and feel for soft spots, flooding damage, standing rigging (frayed cables and so on).

Basically I'm wondering, is it too cheap to be for real? I'm decided on a 27 foot plus or minus size for my first boat, and 27' Catalinas are not too commonly available it seems. 25 and 30 more common. I'm hoping that means owner are keeping them and they are in demand.

There were literally thousands of Catalina 27 made but they were made in Southern California so maybe not a lot went east. It was our first boat and we loved it. I would find a surveyor unless you know what to look for. I would a cost for a set of used sails, an estimate on getting it rerigged just in case. Find out if possible for what a “good” Catalina is going for before you buy a fixer upper..

[cdreid]

Theres a 25 here for sale for er.. 1900? Maybe 1400. Outfitted to hell i just dont have time to go look. Boats in that range are Dirt cheap. People buy them to play around with on weekends .. no longer have time and sell them after they sit in the yard a few years.

Id find one that had a trailer.. unless you want to pay some sleazy marina $$$ to let it sit there.
At that price a surveyor is ridiculous though these folks are looking out for you. That's the price of an old haggard used car.