What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[spidey_ak]

Originally Posted by Highlander

(in places like the strait of Malacca, off Yemen and Aden etc. are carrying AK47s and the like. A shotguns range is, at sea with someone who really knows how to use it, about 100 yards on a good day with a calm sea. As an instructor for the pistols we used to use once said (truthfully) that if your target was more the 50 yards away, throw the silly weapon - you'll have a lot better chance of a hit. Granted we now use a far superior weapon but believe me, by the time you try to sight and the guy with the AK, you'll have a heap of holes in you.

Just a quick observation:

A shotgun loaded with slugs & using a high grain bullet would go quite a bit further with much better results.

As for me, I would carry two types of weapons (and plan on doing so): a 300 Winchester Rifle with scope & a marine shotgun. I am military sniper trained and have used a 300 Winchester my whole life, so I feel confident I could hit what I needed to in a pinch. The shotgun would be for short range protection.

Actually, I hope never to have to use them, unless it's to hunt here, where I now live =). But, given the negative experiences (& positive!) around the world of which I've read but a few, you can bet it will be part of our contingency & emergency plans.

By the way, you hear about pirates stealing gear, alcohol, etc... but, the reality of the situation is that. on top of the "average" roberry or hijacking, they rape, pillage, & more (at least, according to my ex who lived in the Phillipenes for awhile).

[sneuman]

but they aren't robbing pleasure vessels in the strait of malacca! look at International Maritime Organization's Web site if you don't believe me.

[Alan Wheeler]

Yes absolutley true. In fact, piracy is fast becoming like the fiction of the Burmuda triangle. There aren't near as many small vessel piracey acounts as the rumours suggest. And there are many area's in the world that have an unjustified reputation.

Hey Scott, "bound for the Chesapeake"....so your sailing home????

[sneuman]

Hi Alan,

If only it were that romantic! No, I took a job in DC area and will be leaving Asia (4 years in Hong Kong, 3 in Thailand, plus 3 years in India in mid 90s). Sad to depart from such a wonderful and fascinating part of the world, but there is family to consider ...

I am hoping to live aboard in Annapolis.

[CaptainK]

Hey Scott!!

Your mailbox is full.

Tried to send ya a message. And could not. Welcome back to the states!!

[sneuman]

hey kevin, i just cleared it out! please re-send.

[CaptainK]

Already did!!

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by maxingout

I never carried weapons during my circumnavigation. I did carry pepper spray in the unlikely event that someone ever got on board when we were at anchor.

In an eleven year circumnavigation, we were boarded once at night in Grenada while at anchor, and because the doors to our salon were locked, the intruder did not get inside the boat.

When you are outside the USA, there is gun control in the majority of the greatest cruising destinations. If you skip places like Venezuela and a few high risk locations, cruising is much safer than living in the USA where there are over 12,000 gun related homicides each year. I never worried about weapons until I returned to the USA.

When we cruised the Malacca straits, we found out that attacks against yachts on the Malaysian side of the straits are extremely rare. When it came time to decide whether to sail up the Red Sea and "face the pirates", or go into the Southern Indian Ocean and around the Cape of Good Hope, I decided that the risks of sailing in the southern ocean were much higher than the risks of piracy.

The whole firearms debate seems a little off the mark. Most of the world is extremely safe. The world has thousands of awesome cruising destinations in which the thought of carrying firearms is preposterous. In an eleven year circumnavigation, I was never threatened by anyone or felt any fear, and that includes sailing up the Red Sea.

I don't believe anything that the media says about how dangerous things are outside the USA. I have lived outside the continental USA for twenty-eight years and most of those years were in the third world in my work as an eye surgeon. Common sense goes a long way to keep you out of trouble wherever you are on planet earth.

I didn't carry weapons on my first circumnavigation, and if I do another one, I won't carry weapons on it either. There's no need to because I don't cruise to locations where pirates and weapons are a problem.

But if you want to fan the flames of fear and hear recordings about a pirate attack, you can listen to a video clip on our web site. Here's the URL of the video clip:dvd

Click on Episode 3 to hear the recording.


Enjoy,

Sound advice from someone who's been there, done that. I would only second the observation about the Strait of Malacca. I have not been through myself, but have looked at the stats and know a delivery skipper who's made the passage dozens of times without even the hint of a problem.

[GordMay]

Flare Guns for Self-Defense:
Chad & Carolyn (s/v “Tambadil”) decided to conduct this little trial after hearing that some cruisers who have chosen not to carry firearms, were considering their flare guns as part of their last line of defense in the event of a life-threatening attack, or to warn off would-be thieves.
They posted the “Results Of Our (their) Very Informal Flare Guns Testing” in the SSCA Discussion Board:
SSCA Discussion Board :: View topic - Results Of Our Very Informal Flare Guns Testing

[delmarrey]

I haven't read the artical but I would hope someone would NOT attempt to use a flare gun inside a boat. Burning ones own boat would not protect ones self.

[GordMay]

The author proposes the use of flares “For warning shots and for shots from your boat towards another ... and as a desparate* ... "fight for our lives" measure.

I can personally attest to the folly of discharging a flare inside your boat. That tale might better be told in the “The Sailor's Confessional” thread (but don’t bother looking ) , but suffice it to say that Maggie got brand new upholstery throughout “Auspicious”.

* “It is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things” ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Duckonfidelis]

I have read with interest, and am on the cusp of this decision myself. I don't see any mention of non-lethal arms (apart from chemicals) such as TAZERs or blunt projectiles.

The one consideration that I don't see addressed is the lethal environment. If I were to do piracy I imagine I would pursue it the old fashioned way meaning not leaving behind any witnesses. Are there pirates out there who are armed and ready to kill that one can talk out of murders by supplication? I completely agree that one shouldn't produce a lethal weapon when alternatives are available. But as the saying goes: It's you and me, until it's you or me; then it's just me. Lethal weather is less and less a complete surpise, one can do a great deal to take measures. But the lethal intruder (provided that he or she is in fact lethal) comes without warning and demands rapid action.

Are the majority of pirates today satisfied with our material possesions and willing to leave us to bear witness?



LtCol USMC

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Duckonfidelis

Lethal weather is less and less a complete surpise, one can do a great deal to take measures. But the lethal intruder (provided that he or she is in fact lethal) comes without warning and demands rapid action.

There are rouge waves in the ocean because we do not now understand their causes well enough to predict them. We may never predict them and may never need to. They are simply too random, too far out to sea and the risk too small to make the prediction worth while.

Likewise we can predict, more successfully than the weather, the places in the world where yachtsmen will be likely be injured, robbed or in some other way harassed. As importantly we can identify those places where the "attack" will be brought on by men trying to steal the boat and kill the crew and those places where the crime is more likely a burglary for what little valuables are in the salon. ( It would be an interesting comparison to see how many people are killed by the weather and how many are killed by crime on the high seas.)

I own several firearms and would no more consider carrying them back to the Bahamas or the Leewards than I would to a shopping mall. The risk vs hassle equation is just not there. Personally I like the tazer idea because there is little likelihood that I will poke a hole in the hull with it. It just may not fair well in the salt environment.

In the mean time keep your boat locked, don't paint the name of your boat on your dingy, and listen to the cruiser's net, they know where not to anchor.

[kesey]

Originally Posted by Duckonfidelis

The one consideration that I don't see addressed is the lethal environment. If I were to do piracy I imagine I would pursue it the old fashioned way meaning not leaving behind any witnesses. Are there pirates out there who are armed and ready to kill that one can talk out of murders by supplication?

LtCol USMC

To sail without at least the protection of an M60 or an M240 is the height of irresponsibility. Ideally one should carry an RPG, but if this is not possible or does not suit the decoration of the yacht, then let the M240 suffice. It is much safer to blow a neighbour out of the water than to risk that he be a pirate in disguise.

Fair winds and always get your retaliation in first.

kesey

[philip van praag]

we all hear of stories of pirates, and indeed friends of ours were atacked but caried no armes. But lived to tell the tale. being a brit i would suggest that culture is playing a big part in the poll as most posters are from USA. How many stories are there of sailors killing pirates? (in uk waters you would be prosicuted and inprisoned.)