Dangers at Sea, Dangers on Land

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

In 2012, the Coast Guard counted 4515 accidents that involved 651 deaths, 3000 injuries and approximately $38 million dollars of damage to property as a result of recreational boating accidents.The fatality rate was 5.4 deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.

You appear to be intentionally skewing the stats here buddy. As I quote back in post #27, according to the USCG, in 2012 there were 242 Auxiliary Sail vessels involved in reportable accidents in the USA. This resulted in 44 injuries and 12 deaths. This is approaching statistical insignificance.

[boatman61]

Well Schumacher can vouch that skiing is more dangerous than Formula 1...
But if your honest just about everything that happens to you on your boat is often your own stoopid fault.. you've eliminated at least 99% of humanity outa the equation.. just a measly 1% to ram ya, drag into ya or gybe without a 'Ho'....

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I think the statistics are somewhat misleading, and correlate to different years, but if you want to challenge my conclusion, have at it:

During the past 10 years,about 41.5
people have died skiing/snowboarding per year on average.

The National Sporting Goods Association (NSGA)
reports in 2011 there were 6.9 million skier and 5.1 million
snowboarders.


In 2012, the Coast Guard counted 4515 accidents that involved 651 deaths, 3000 injuries and approximately $38 million dollars of damage to property as a result of recreational boating accidents.The fatality rate was 5.4 deaths per 100,000 registered recreational vessels.

Hmmm...

The two data sets that you quote don't seem very comparable to me. One lists a death rate and a estimated number of participants in the sport, with no regard to how many times per year those folks actually skied.

The other lists a death rate for all registered vessels, with no regard to number of t imes used or number of people on board when used. It also fails to note that (as referenced upthread) the VAST majority of boating fatalities are in small open motor vessels, not sailboats, and especially not cruising sailboats.

Absolutely nothing is proven by the numbers you have posted. They are essentially unrelated to the risk comparison of skiing and cruising.

Jim

[Downline]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Place me firmly in category B.

I totally agree with this sentiment.
We are talking about cruising and I think that means international. What about the dangers on land in most parts of the world?

To the guys suggesting rules and regulations. I agree. We need a concise set of rules and regulations or else we will all have to go back to common sense.

[Andrew B.]

And how many accidents, and children deaths were directly related
to water sailing">blue water sailing ?

I have attempted to edit out the "water sailing" that precedes blue water sailing to no avail !

I would submit that the CC numbers are extremely small, and that BWS is
almost nil. If a child has died while blue-water sailing I can't imagine that
it would not have been public knowledge within a very short time. And known
by several CF members that would surely have shared such info by now.

IMO The stats you submitted are almost totally worthless in this debate.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Downline

To the guys suggesting rules and regulations. I agree. We need a concise set of rules and regulations or else we will all have to go back to common sense.

I vote we bring back Keel Hauling...
Problem with the above quote is..
The rules and regulations are usually created by vested interests using nonsensical statistics...
AKA Killjoys..
That's why these days you can get busted for letting your kid have fun the way you did before your teens..

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Hmmm...

The two data sets that you quote don't seem very comparable to me. One lists a death rate and a estimated number of participants in the sport, with no regard to how many times per year those folks actually skied.

The other lists a death rate for all registered vessels, with no regard to number of t imes used or number of people on board when used. It also fails to note that (as referenced upthread) the VAST majority of boating fatalities are in small open motor vessels, not sailboats, and especially not cruising sailboats.

Absolutely nothing is proven by the numbers you have posted. They are essentially unrelated to the risk comparison of skiing and cruising.

Jim

Reread my comment. I was responding to another comment about BOATING vs skiing. I also said that the statistics were misleading and not comparable, but I'd been challenged to produce some statistics.

If you've got better, bring 'em.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You appear to be intentionally skewing the stats here buddy. As I quote back in post #27, according to the USCG, in 2012 there were 242 Auxiliary Sail vessels involved in reportable accidents in the USA. This resulted in 44 injuries and 12 deaths. This is approaching statistical insignificance.

I used coast guard statistics regarding boating, because I was responding to a comment about boating vs skiing.

So I wasn't skewing anything.

As far as statistical insignificance, it certainly wasn't insignificant to the people who died.

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I vote we bring back Keel Hauling...
Problem with the above quote is..
The rules and regulations are usually created by vested interests using nonsensical statistics...
AKA Killjoys..
That's why these days you can get busted for letting your kid have fun the way you did before your teens..

Bravo Bravo.

Enjoying life, and having fun is something that nerds just
can't grasp, much less tolerate.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well Schumacher can vouch that skiing is more dangerous than Formula 1...
But if your honest just about everything that happens to you on your boat is often your own stoopid fault.. you've eliminated at least 99% of humanity outa the equation.. just a measly 1% to ram ya, drag into ya or gybe without a 'Ho'....

This is about right.

Even the skiing statistics I saw pointed out that most of the skiing accidents were from people (males, between 25 and 35) either participating in risky activities or in an unauthorized area.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I used coast guard statistics regarding boating, because I was responding to a comment about boating vs skiing.

So I wasn't skewing anything.

As far as statistical insignificance, it certainly wasn't insignificant to the people who died.

We are talking about real risk of those using cruising sailboats. I don't care what you compare it to, the real risk by any measurable standard for most cruising boats is very low. It approaches zero, statistically speaking. Your final statement simply underlines your confusion regarding risk assessment. It's tantamount to the old hackneyed comment: "One death is too many." Or, "Any amount of pollution is too much."

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I think the statistics are somewhat misleading, and correlate to different years, but if you want to challenge my conclusion, have at it:

Read carefully. I did not challenge your conclusion. Merely pointed out that you were making a claim about relative accident rates, posted data to back the claim but only posted data relating to one of the two options.

To be honest I have no idea whether skiing or boating is relatively more dangerous and don't see that is really that pertinent to the discussion anyway.

[hpeer]

OK, just for another perceptive I want to say that, due to my personal experience, the scariest place in the world for me is a hospital. My ex wife was an critical care nurse, they did some screwed up stuff. My kids have had some bad experiences, I had poison control tell me to "take whatever strips necessary, it's critical" while trying to get care in an ER. that nearly resulted in me being arrested. A local hospital damn near killed my Dad before we got him outta there AMA. My Mom had a stroke while recovering from surgery, and the didn't notice. I could go on, and on, and on.

From my experience when you are in the hospital you need a full time advocate watching out for your well being.

On a personal level I've had doctors tell me I needed shoulder surgery, the only option, when in fact I recouperated my shoulder myself once I understood the process. The Flyers sports doctor, once I got to see him, told me I healed myself and did exactly what he would have recommended.

While I understand that hospitals do save lives, and are of benefit, they also are a place of great danger, while being perceived as a place of rest and recuperation and safety.

That is the point, how do the realities stack up against the perception? Some of us perceive hospitals and doctors as islands of safety. Some of us see it very differently and don't trust them a damn.

Each to his own, just please respect my opinion and don't try to foist your opinion on me for my own good. You would not like it if the tables were turned.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Reread my comment. I was responding to another comment about BOATING vs skiing. I also said that the statistics were misleading and not comparable, but I'd been challenged to produce some statistics.

If you've got better, bring 'em.

So you knew the statistics were misleading but posted them anyway?

[skipmac]

I repeat my previous question. Has anyone on this forum ever known or ever heard about a child that died or was seriously injured on a cruising boat or even ill or died due to inability to access medical care?

If no one has ever even heard of this happening I would propose that this risk is so small as to be no more significant than the risk of living on land.