Again piracy in the Caribbean

[gulfislandfred]

About my poverty stat:
Read what I wrote: 40% of the population ON MY LITTLE ISLAND is 40%. That's from the government stats. I didn't say anything about the rest of Canada.


I didn't mean to start a blame game. I will still say, to those who thing they're better than homeless people (that's the subtext) There, but for fortune, go you, or I.


My point is that the problem isn't going away. Blame who you like, but be prepared. Protect your property, hopefully in a passive manner. We can't act like we did a few years ago, and just assume our stuff will still be on the boat when we come back,

[Simi 60]

There are countries out there that have pretty much eliminated crime by having better social support.
Free medical, free money, social housing
People have money for what they need so don't need to commit crimes to get it

And the citizens are happier no longer worried about being robbed or shot by "poor" people

Likely works out cheaper in the long run, look at the cost of keeping a huge police force, judicial system and keeping someone prisoner.
In the US apparently $50,000 on average per person per year just to keep them locked up X 1.5 million prisoners.

This article goes as high as $500,000 a year to keep I guy in a box
https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom...l-time-high-2/

Of course there will always be some form of crime
In some lands those that do crime are treated humanly with the emphasis on rehabilitation, not the stick.
When finished, a better person should be released vs an angry man who learned better criminal skills inside.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-...tice/101481590

[Love2 boat]

So two thoughts -



First in 2005 through 2007 - the US government decided that the way to wealth was to buy and own a home. So No Documented loans were invented to help the lower class finance a home and build wealth. We all know how that went... Speculation ran rampant and people bought homes they had no business owning - but with the lure or 30% increases in homes everyone was buying a home and expecting huge returns or to sell and make a bundle. That is not how things worked out - upside down they walked away from their commitment to pay back the loan.


Second - today you can as a first time home buyer put down 3% and get a mortgage. But not anyone can get a mortgage - because of what happened in the first paragraph - the greedy who did not deserve a home destroyed that... So no you do not need a pile of money to own a home at least here in the US - but you need a steady paycheck or two in order to live above your means. Scale back - give it 10 years and trade up so if you hit the unemployment line or life throws you a curve ball your back in not against the wall.


You can do it but you need discipline which seems to be lacking - at least in my opinion.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

There are countries out there that have pretty much eliminated crime by having better social support.
Free medical, free money, social housing
People have money for what they need so don't need to commit crimes to get it
And the citizens are happier no longer worried about being robbed or shot by "poor" people

Canyou name some of those countries? I know of none.

Originally Posted by lestersails

Agree. Thus my reaction whenever I see a pleasure boat flying the skull and crossbones. Just idiotic to suggest pirates are somehow glamorous, fun, or cute.

I believe (better double check before clearing the decks for action) that any boat flying the skull and bones may be attacked, entered and taken with deadly force. I believe this is in worldwide marine law

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

I We have been cruising the Caribbean since 2016. There are places we will not go. Many ‘entitled’ western folks do not get this.

This ^
Many are simply ignorant on their personal safety and probably were before setting off as well. They are the ones that end up in the news articles that they can’t read/acknowledge because the thought is too scary

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I believe (better double check before clearing the decks for action) that any boat flying the skull and bones may be attacked, entered and taken with deadly force. I believe this is in worldwide marine law

Wowza - I would certainly hope not! I wouldn't be in favor of the death penalty for being a thoughtless knucklehead.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

I think you might be reaching for the other one.



If it smells like s——, tastes like s——, feels like s——-, it probably is.





The definition, who cares! It’s still terrorists with guns. In Venezuela, it could even be their own military. It’s common knowledge to stay a couple hundred miles off shore there.



We were in Bonaire and were hit by another boat while on our mooring. Local authorities of all kinds were useless beyond all words.



We have been cruising the Caribbean since 2016. There are places we will not go. Many ‘entitled’ western folks do not get this.

Thats the definition of “Andouillette”…. You never make the mistake of ordering that dish twice in your lifetime.

[jipcho]

Maybe things have changed, but when I was in Bonaire, and then Curacao back in 2015, piracy wasn't a problem. I have no doubt that drugs are run from Venezuela and Colombia throughout the Western Caribbean, but there were never any violent attacks reported, and none of us cruisers were concerned. That fear became more relevant when planning a departure from Curacao, bound for Colombia or Panama. Those waters are well known to be dangerous, due both to the weather and the potential for life threatening attacks. being so close, I was considering heading to Santa Marta or Cartagena, but opted for a 4 day sail from Curacao to Jamaica in heavy seas and strong winds. I'm better prepared and equipped to deal with the ferocious natural elements than I am with the nasty human elements.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by jipcho

Maybe things have changed, but when I was in Bonaire, and then Curacao back in 2015, piracy wasn't a problem.

Things have changed, with the most serious deterioration starting around 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_refugee_crisis

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Canyou name some of those countries? I know of none.

:

Plenty of articles out there on the Nordic countries and others on the benifits of income equality, cheap if not free healthcare and education , higher rates of social housing and financial safety nets for unemployed.


If people are treated as humans and not refuse
If they don't have to sell a kidney or steal for the basics - accommodation, food, medical, and education
It stands to reason that crime rates drop.

Cost of Medical as an example
This article says 100 million people are in medical debt in the USA, people are forced into bankruptcy and losing homes.
Do you think that could lead to crime?


https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06...-medical-debt/

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Plenty of articles out there on the Nordic countries and others on the benifits of income equality, cheap if not free healthcare and education , higher rates of social housing and financial safety nets for unemployed.

If people are treated as humans and not refuse
If they don't have to sell a kidney or steal for the basics - accommodation, food, medical, and education
It stands to reason that crime rates drop.

Nordic exceptionalism is not widely regarded as being simply an outcome of policy but rather a combination of factors:


https://worldhappiness.report/ed/202...-in-the-world/

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Wolfhound

...
Pirata est hostis humani generis.
This has been true since history first began to be recorded.

Perhaps, the oldest of the laws of the sea, is the universal prohibition of piracy.
From Wikipedia:

“Hostis humani generis (Latin for 'an enemy of mankind') is a legal term of art that originates in admiralty law. Before the adoption of public international law,[when?] pirates and slavers were already held to be beyond legal protection and so could be dealt with by any nation, even one that had not been directly attacked ...”

➥ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Nordic exceptionalism is not widely regarded as being simply an outcome of policy but rather a combination of factors:

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/202...-in-the-world/

Taken from the cited report:

Conclusion

The Nordic countries are characterized by a virtuous cycle in which various key institutional and cultural indicators of good society feed into each other including well-functioning democracy, generous and effective social welfare benefits, low levels of crime and corruption, and satisfied citizens who feel free and trust each other and governmental institutions. While this chapter focuses on the Nordic countries, a quick glance at the other countries regularly found at the top of international comparisons of life satisfaction – Switzerland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Canada, and Australia – reveals that they also have most of the same elements in place. Thus, there seems to be no secret sauce specific to Nordic happiness that is unavailable to others. There is rather a more general recipe for creating highly satisfied citizens: Ensure that state institutions are of high quality, non-corrupt, able to deliver what they promise, and generous in taking care of citizens in various adversities.

[5BTM]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Taken from the cited report:

It was the promise to take care of everything for everybody that has made Venezuela what it is today.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

It was the promise to take care of everything for everybody that has made Venezuela what it is today.

I don't think anyone has suggested Venezuela is a model to be emulated. Certainly not mentioned in the report. I think the key summary is as stated:

Ensure that state institutions are of high quality, non-corrupt, able to deliver what they promise, and generous in taking care of citizens in various adversities.

[s/v Jedi]

The Nordic countries being all good is a myth today. You can say they used to be like that but those days are long past. Especially Sweden is bad, with gang violence and gun crime racing up steeply.

The whole idea of less violence is centered around there being less people. Norway is empty. They don’t murder out schools in Alaska I think, even though gun ownership will be very high there.

Back to the Caribbean: don’t just point at points west of Aruba. The pirate attacks near Trinidad and on the passage between Trinidad and Grenada are countless and of high violence with the pirates being of professional level, i.e. rogue government employees from Venezuela.

We had a great time with Venezuelan forces in all the offshore islands all the way West to Islas de Monjes, but this was many years ago. In Colombia we skipped some areas like Barranquilla but visited most others, basically every possible anchorage on the Caribbean coast incl. Bahia Honda in the north, the five bays area etc.

Nicaragua and Honduras aren’t safe to sail within 100nm or even more because of the huge shallow areas with reefs etc. that are all hunting grounds for pirates. For example, you will find multiple places called “Bluefields” which are all named after the famous Dutch pirate BlauwVeld. So it has been like this forever.