Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

[goboatingnow]

In order to legitimate gmdss it was incorporated into solas

But to say it ISVs a treaty is incorrect

“The GMDSS is mandated for ships internationally by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) Safety of Life at Sea Convention (SOLAS), 1974, as amended in 1988, and carries the force of an international treaty. The procedures governing use are contained in the International Telecommunication Union recommendations and in the International Radio Regulations, and also carry the force of an International Treaty.

Where are the GMDSS regulations contained?

The GMDSS regulations are contained in 47 C.F.R. Part 80. Most of the GMDSS regulations are in Subpart W of Part 80.

[goboatingnow]

Gmdss is a new way of handling global distress largely focused on centrally controlled distress response and control and sar asseg management. It changes many aspects of solas tactics

Sadly because it’s not taught to non CEPT vhf license holders it’s often very poorly understood amongst leisure boaters whereas for Cept vhf license is now nearly 50-60% of Thr course

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

New rule for software designers. There must be a Mayday tab in the lower left corner of all helm usage chart displays where an input screen for lats and longs will be presented which can be quickly filled out giving a waypoint on the chart display and nav information for goto.

At first I read this backward, that the Mayday button should be for the person sending the Mayday. Lat/Long in big letters would come up, so you can easily read them into the mic. And that's a good idea.

But then I saw you meant it for when you hear a Mayday. Even better.

You could still have big letters for the location, and pre-fill own ship Lat/Long. Maybe tap each section of the position and scroll to change it to whatever you heard. You'd also need an easy way to switch between DMS, DMM, and decimal degrees. Along with the GoTo option, it could display an instant calculation of the distance to the Lat/Long as you entered it.

Unfortunately I doubt this is a feature which will sell chart plotters. It would be hard to get this past the marketing and budgeting folks.

[goboatingnow]

In my case of i receive a dsc alert on my standard vhf I get a report of the details on the chart plotter

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In my case of i receive a dsc alert on my standard vhf I get a report of the details on the chart plotter

That's the ideal case. But realistically, in some parts of the world, far from all alerts come via DSC. Or if they do, the DSC alert doesn't always have useful position data. So being prepared to copy a position from a voice comm is still important, even if it's meant to be a secondary method.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That's the ideal case. But realistically, in some parts of the world, far from all alerts come via DSC. Or if they do, the DSC alert doesn't always have useful position data. So being prepared to copy a position from a voice comm is still important, even if it's meant to be a secondary method.

The mayday relay from the Mrcc will always have position data as I have said it’s easy to simply call the radio station and request the details there is no issue with that.

While it’s nice to have a local copy the nature of small boat vhf is that it’s often awkward to note the lat Lon precisely and accurately.Far easier to call the Mrcc and ask if you think you are even vaguely useful. I’ve done it quite a few times

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The mayday relay from the Mrcc will always have position data as I have said it’s easy to simply call the radio station and request the details there is no issue with that.

In some places maybe. But at least in the US, you can't count on it. Locally, I've never seen the USCG send a DSC alert, just voice comms to relay. The Canadian Coast Guard does send DSC alerts at times, but not always with position info and always followed by a voice relay.



Plus, if you can receive the original transmission from the distressed boat, you should be preparing to respond at that point, not waiting for the MRCC to relay. Of course you should talk to the MRCC and determine from there if responding would be useful, but if you hear the original request and you're close, there's no reason to waste time waiting when you could be moving closer. Worst case, you deviated for a few minutes before finding out it wasn't necessary. Best case, you arrive on scene a couple minutes sooner and it makes a difference.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In some places maybe. But at least in the US, you can't count on it. Locally, I've never seen the USCG send a DSC alert, just voice comms to relay. The Canadian Coast Guard does send DSC alerts at times, but not always with position info and always followed by a voice relay.



Plus, if you can receive the original transmission from the distressed boat, you should be preparing to respond at that point, not waiting for the MRCC to relay. Of course you should talk to the MRCC and determine from there if responding would be useful, but if you hear the original request and you're close, there's no reason to waste time waiting when you could be moving closer. Worst case, you deviated for a few minutes before finding out it wasn't necessary. Best case, you arrive on scene a couple minutes sooner and it makes a difference.

Gmdss is a managed rescue scenario , that’s means you act under that management. You make contract with the Mrcc and then they decide how best to handle the emergency it’s like you acting as a fireman otherwise.

Of course you may decide to close on the emergency but you should try wherever possible to reach the appropriate Mrcc
The old solas convention is out of date. It’s now a managed system and it only works if you agree to be “ managed “


Gmdss procedures absolutely need you to wait for the Mrcc to acknowledge if they fail to you are required to attempt to relay the failed acknowledgement. This is because without that ack you cannot be sure the original distress was heard

Gmdss is a well thought out worldwide proven system , please use it’s a it was intended to ,this is not an area for gung ho individualism

I’ve been involved in sar and I’ve seen it work numerous times and save countless lives

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Gmdss is a managed rescue scenario , that’s means you act under that management. You make contract with the Mrcc and then they decide how best to handle the emergency it’s like you acting as a fireman otherwise.

Of course you may decide to close on the emergency but you should try wherever possible to reach the appropriate Mrcc
The old solas convention is out of date. It’s now a managed system and it only works if you agree to be “ managed “


Gmdss procedures absolutely need you to wait for the Mrcc to acknowledge if they fail to you are required to attempt to relay the failed acknowledgement. This is because without that ack you cannot be sure the original distress was heard

Gmdss is a well thought out worldwide proven system , please use it’s a it was intended to ,this is not an area for gung ho individualism

I’ve been involved in sar and I’ve seen it work numerous times and save countless lives

After the last couple of years my faith in "managed systems" by authorities is a little delicate and a bit of voluntary redundancy by the boating public can't hurt as long as we act responsibly.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

After the last couple of years my faith in "managed systems" by authorities is a little delicate and a bit of voluntary redundancy by the boating public can't hurt as long as we act responsibly.

Sorry to hear that but having worked with SAR people their dedication , supreme traing and first class equipment means they are the professionals. You wouldn’t attempt your own brain surgery so why attempt to rescue someone un guided.

Distress scenarios have been widely studied and review by SAR operatives and all agree that managed distress situation as by far the best for good outcomes. Today in many cases there are multiple rescue assets and coordination is needed

Nations have heavily invested in Mrcc facilities new radios to gmdss compliance and new procedures

It behaves is to comply as best we can

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry to hear that but having worked with SAR people their dedication , supreme traing and first class equipment means they are the professionals. You wouldn’t attempt your own brain surgery so why attempt to rescue someone un guided.

I agree that it's generally best to follow the direction of the SAR coordinator. But as one of those "trained professionals" I can assure you they don't always get it right.

They can be dogmatic. They have scripts and procedures to follow, and they don't always match up to the on-scene conditions. I can think of several cases where they screwed things up more than helped, due to lack of local knowledge, misunderstanding the situation and just plain inexperience. Fortunately in these cases nothing bad came of it, but some of that was just luck.

My approach is to work with the authorities and try to maintain good, informative communications. Follow their direction if possible. But if they're clearly wrong, or mis-understanding, or pulled up the wrong script for the situation, or there's a condition they hadn't anticipated, it's my job as the on-scene person to be assertive. They don't like to be told "no" but I've had to do it more than once.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I agree that it's generally best to follow the direction of the SAR coordinator. But as one of those "trained professionals" I can assure you they don't always get it right.



They can be dogmatic. They have scripts and procedures to follow, and they don't always match up to the on-scene conditions. I can think of several cases where they screwed things up more than helped, due to lack of local knowledge, misunderstanding the situation and just plain inexperience. Fortunately in these cases nothing bad came of it, but some of that was just luck.



My approach is to work with the authorities and try to maintain good, informative communications. Follow their direction if possible. But if they're clearly wrong, or mis-understanding, or pulled up the wrong script for the situation, or there's a condition they hadn't anticipated, it's my job as the on-scene person to be assertive. They don't like to be told "no" but I've had to do it more than once.

I don’t have issue my point is ultimately they have control and if they choose to exhort it you have little choice to do what you’re told. It’s all well being difficult but you just be making things worse some people seem to have issues taking direction but ultimately you have to let the operational control people control

Nothing worse then the incompetent or Ill prepared turning up on scene and making the problem worse

The whole idea is to create a command control system staff it within professionals and let them get on with the task at hand . Even if it’s not perfect it’s not the role of the amateur to redesign it mid distress.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I agree that it's generally best to follow the direction of the SAR coordinator. But as one of those "trained professionals" I can assure you they don't always get it right.

They can be dogmatic. They have scripts and procedures to follow, and they don't always match up to the on-scene conditions. I can think of several cases where they screwed things up more than helped, due to lack of local knowledge, misunderstanding the situation and just plain inexperience. Fortunately in these cases nothing bad came of it, but some of that was just luck.

My approach is to work with the authorities and try to maintain good, informative communications. Follow their direction if possible. But if they're clearly wrong, or mis-understanding, or pulled up the wrong script for the situation, or there's a condition they hadn't anticipated, it's my job as the on-scene person to be assertive. They don't like to be told "no" but I've had to do it more than once.

This post very well identifies problems which often manifest when dealing with experts and it is related to how they became experts.

Experts come in two flavors. There are those who, like ships captains or airline pilots, enter the field at a low level and by a combination of on the job experience and formal study come to such familiarity with all aspects of a discipline that they are considered "expert". The other type accumulate extensive knowledge of a subject in only an academic or administrative environment but are however so deficient in actual experience of it's application that when it comes to applying the knowledge don't know which end of the screw driver to pick up.

Unfortunately, in government there is a tendency to hire, and place in positions of authority, the second type and so whilst the person on the shore based end of the microphone may have done all the courses and has the manual (which may be written from a butt covering viewpoint) they may never have actually been in a boat.

Whilst they may never achieve the exalted status of "expert" many amatuer sailors (particularly the long term cruisers) imbibe such extensive ranges of experience that they will tend to instinctively choose the right course of action in most circumstances and in addition may be much more familiar with both the range of options available and the hazards explicit in the operations of a sailboat pleasure vessels.

[goboatingnow]

The issue is more managment of the rescue and the rescue sssets, Rnli crews know more about towing small. craft then any sailors for example, local knowledge experts know more about the water they habitually carry out rescues in etc

These days with multiple rescue sssets , helo ops , etc. it’s professional job

It’s not really for debate gmdss is in place now for several years , whole solas conventions have been updated etc. dsc is widespread etc.