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Old 09-12-2022, 07:58   #151
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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My instinct exactly.. I have been in a situation where the nearest assets have ignored the request to assist put out by the UKCG, one being as close as 3nm from me.
And don't say he couldn't have had his VHF on as the arrogant twat came strutting down the jetty in Salcombe when I was towed in to inform me "if you can't sail and your engines not working you should not be on a boat".
I had been at sea for 47 days and just been T-boned in a hit and run by a French m/sailor. Flat batteries, jury rigged lowers port side, Genoa ripped up the luff and 17ft hull deck spilt with 3ft vertical split in stbd hull at fwd lower.
So I would change course towards the distress call regardless of GBN's 'Hero' sarcasm..
Hero's are created by others, not the person taking action.


The worst nightmare for SAR operatives is to find them rescuing rescuers , hence the focus on Gmdss is control of official distress alerts. You remain under a legal solas obligation to help but equally gmdss sets up a command and control process to try and ensure the right assets are deployed.

Hence there is a gmdss procedure set out as I says firstly everyone from the distressed and the distress responders attempts to make contact with the Mrcv and the equipment Carraige is supposed to enable that

What gmdss is trying to avoid is a rush of uncoordinated aid of unsuitable assets into an emergency situation . Hence it directs the rescue

In my view having seen it in action. Itís much much better then the old solas approach and mariners would do well to brush up on formal gmdss procedures sadly missing fron untrained leisure sailors

It worth noting a whole day of the Cept vhf license training and a full section on the written paper is given over to gmdss these days.
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:22   #152
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pirate Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

Well the Coast Guard was trying to avoid sending out the Salcombe lifeboat.. problem was no one was prepared to cooperate/acknowledge the SAR call to assist.
That kinda throws everything above out the window.
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:24   #153
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Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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Well the Coast Guard was trying to avoid sending out the Salcombe lifeboat.. problem was no one was prepared to cooperate/acknowledge the SAR call to assist.

That kinda throws everything above out the window.


Thatís a very unusual scenario in my experience the Rnli usually launches at the droop of a pin
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:30   #154
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pirate Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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That’s a very unusual dvravsrio in my experience the Rnli usually launches at the droop of a pin
Very familiar with the RNLI from my time in Poole and Salcombe and having friends who were serving volunteers and full timers at both places.
If there's alternatives they will use them first rather than have a bunch of butchers, bakers, clerks, bank managers etc charge out of their workplaces in response to a maroon.
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:35   #155
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Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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Very familiar with the RNLI from my time in Poole and Salcombe and having friends who were serving volunteers and full timers at both places.
If there's alternatives they will use them first rather than have a bunch of butchers, bakers, clerks, bank managers etc charge out of their workplaces in response to a maroon.


We had the usual crew of great spirited amateurs , and they responded time and time again to largely moronic mayday calls. Without any complaints this obliged 3am calls.

Great bunch of people first class backed up by the worlds best lifeboat service support people
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Old 09-12-2022, 09:34   #156
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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Again it’s up to the mrcc to decide this eventually and then they willtake into account your equipments ability

The MRCC are not the police or the military and cannot issue binding orders to anyone.


I'm not going to stand down if I'm nearby and can assist safely and effectively just to assuage the ego of some donut-eating bureaucrat misremembering his training and following the wrong flowchart in his three-ring binder. Or because I've been lumped in with the other 99% of recreational boaters that give the rest of us a bad name.
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:39   #157
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

USCG rescue reports often mention in the fine print that the actual rescue was conducted by "Good Samaritan Vessels". Thank God they didn't have GMDSS training.
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:49   #158
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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I've been cruising for some years now on most of the great lakes and have heard my share of mayday calls. In almost all instances, I'm left wondering, where is that exactly?

The mayday call goes out during an emergency followed immediately by a lat/lon and then perhaps a range and bearing from some obscure inlet or island. I'm typically standing at the helm so I don't have a pencil and paper at the ready (fixable, i know), nor do I have total memory recall, most lat/lon keyboard entry into chart plotters are cumbersome and obscured deep in some sub menu.

It seems almost pointless. It's also frustrating because I want to respond if able but what to do? Here some things I think could be improved:

The coast guard sould make reference to larger cities or land marks and then fine tune the position relative the obscure inlet or island.

Clearly stating if it is in US or Canadian waters. Their radio calls have large over lapping coverage on the great lakes. Even what body of water, eg. Toronto radio covers the western end of lake Ontario and eastern lake Erie.

What if the coast guard would transmit an AIS target?

Another beef I have is their incessant request to have the distressed vessel relay their coordinates, yet again. I understand why; people under stress can't recite a long string of numbers with any accuracy. Why not get the vessel to activate the MMSI emergency button their radios? Then there's no human error involved and everybody gets the lat/lon of the distressed vessel electronically.

Also with reference to the incessant call for position read backs, I've advised my wife that if she's ever on the receiving end of these calls that's she's to respond WHEN ABLE. In an emergency the coast guard is working for you, not the other way around. Deal with developing emergencies first, then talk.

Rant off.
Definitely a bit of an odd rant! there are a number of things you have to remember. The coastguard have a large number of repeaters all along the lakes so that they have coverage. so yes you will hear coastgaurd calls from all over the lake(s) even ones that are hundreds of KM away. but they do tend to move their transmissions to appropriate repeaters as needed. The coastguard DO provide descriptions of the mayday location and generally don't rely on just the lat/long so its pretty easy to figure out where they are talking about even without the time to write down the coordinates.

Or at least that has been my experience here on Lake Ontario for the last 35+ years.

You're also making some assumptions about people having the latest and greatest VHF gear onboard AND it being programmed with an MMS corerctly AND having GPS data connected to the VHF!
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Old 09-12-2022, 11:59   #159
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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The MRCC are not the police or the military and cannot issue binding orders to anyone.


I'm not going to stand down if I'm nearby and can assist safely and effectively just to assuage the ego of some donut-eating bureaucrat misremembering his training and following the wrong flowchart in his three-ring binder. Or because I've been lumped in with the other 99% of recreational boaters that give the rest of us a bad name.


Actually under gmdss treaty they are the police and have full legal authority to direct the rescue and relieve you of any obligation

As to why you would adopt an anti attitude in these circumstances is totally beyond me. Thereís people are trained professionals you presumably are not.

Donít be an idiot and take the preferred direction and heed the professionals
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Old 09-12-2022, 13:31   #160
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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Actually under gmdss treaty they are the police and have full legal authority to direct the rescue and relieve you of any obligation
Where do you find this mythical "GMDSS Treaty" ?
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Old 09-12-2022, 17:19   #161
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

There are adverse circumstances where "time is of the essence" like, my ratbag kid just set the boat afire and we're going to have to jump into the tiger shark infested waters soon.

New rule for software designers. There must be a Mayday tab in the lower left corner of all helm usage chart displays where an input screen for lats and longs will be presented which can be quickly filled out giving a waypoint on the chart display and nav information for goto.

Dunno about other folks but the vhf and the MFD are the two things which are turned on when I'm at the wheel.
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Old 10-12-2022, 01:19   #162
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Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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Where do you find this mythical "GMDSS Treaty" ?


Itís an imo treaty an outline is here https://imso.org/gmdss/?amp. Each signatures country typically published local versions ( like USA rescue 21nand different countries have different ways of incorporating treaties into law

Gmdss concerns sea area division. And appropriate red urectrspovse , communications equipment and carraige requirement as well as usage. Distress altering and basic distress management

There are also mofocstionsctl several other treaties like solas etc to incorporate gmdss. And individual countries have published local plans like USA rescue 21

Gmdss is a huge change in worldwide rescue operations.

There are upcoming mods and there are changes in the solas conventions also.
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Old 10-12-2022, 03:20   #163
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Thumbs up Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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UNCLOS:
Article 98
Duty to render assistance
1. Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers:
(a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of
being lost;
(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such action may reasonably be expected of him;
(c) after a collision, to render assistance to the other ship, its crew and its passengers and, where possible, to inform the other ship of the name of his own ship, its port of registry and the nearest port at which it will call.
Thank you. Pretty clear, with some room to interpret what is "reasonably to be expected".

Please explain UNCLOS applicability to US flagged vessels or US waters. I see that the US did not ratify this treaty - something to confuse simple-sailor-me.

Is there a comparable list of duties of a ship's master, from the US government, for US flagged vessels?
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Old 10-12-2022, 03:38   #164
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

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It’s an imo treaty an outline is here https://imso.org/gmdss/?amp.
There is nothing there about a "GDMSS Treaty" .
You either didn't read or didn't understand your reference. It makes it clear that your multiple statements about a "GDMSS Treaty" and what obligations it imposed on vessels who hear a distress signal is totally incorrect.

GDMSS says nothing about a vessel's actions on hearing a distress call (That is only covered in SOLAS Article 98) It is a TECHNICAL specification.
"The Global Maritime Distress and Safety System is the technical, operational and administrative structure for maritime distress and safety communications worldwide.
...

"The GMDSS establishes the radiocommunications equipment that ships are required to carry, how this equipment shall be maintained and how it is used, and provides the context within which governments should establish the appropriate shore-based facilities to support GMDSS communications.""

There is no such thing as "the GDMSS Treaty"
"It was established in 1988 by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) which adopted a revised text of Chapter IV of the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, 1974, (SOLAS) – dealing with Radiocommunications. dealing with Radiocommunications ...

i.e. GMDSS is just a Chapter in SOLAS. Not the subject of a separate "GDMSS Treaty"
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Old 10-12-2022, 03:53   #165
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Re: Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

ďtechnical, operational and administrative structure for maritime distress and safety communications worldwide. It was established in 1988 by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) which adopted a revised text of Chapter IV of the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, 1974, (SOLAS) Ė dealing with Radiocommunications Ė and was implemented globally between 1992 and 1997. The GMDSS establishes the radiocommunications equipment that ships are required to carry, how this equipment shall be maintained and how it is used, and provides the context within which governments should establish the appropriate shore-based facilities to support GMDSS communications.
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