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Old 03-12-2019, 08:23   #1276
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

FWIW they seemed to have had a few big waves over the boat and lost one of their chairs. He also mentions that te trip was not "recommended"

Riley talks about it at 4:07:18

https://youtu.be/XWkf33S92t0?t=13003
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:23   #1277
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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I disagree, particularly since the cheerleading was somehow okay and those who posted concerns where treated quite differently.

Always seems to be the case. Little tolerance for any views outside the boisterous cheerleading.

For discussions about a voyage that was fundamentally political to eschew politics was simply not reasonable.
Good point, although I have to admit that posts ##1244 & 1245 were well-timed, even though it resulted in some of my own recent "squabbling" getting removed. Besides, it threatened to subsume the final act of the drama which wouldn't have been fair to those tuned in mainly for that purpose.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:31   #1278
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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you explain carbon offsets very well.....were do i go to get my cash rebate for all the CO2 that i have not created during a life of sail?
You are actually absolutely right.. If the system really worked, you should see a benefit to your personal economic status.. mostly cause you would have saved a ton of money other people had to pay to drive their cars or take their flights etc. But since carbon offsets are far from being a universal system with everyone on board (every player will accuse the others of cheating them.. "I'd be a sucker to pay that!".. it is like paying to breathe!) .. so .. back to human nature. No way in hell that would ever work. I wonder who came up with that.

Anyhow.. like I said.. "whatever". Reality will take care of itself. The only obscenity is that folks older than 50 or so dare to have an opinion on this when they have little skin in the game. This debate and the votes on what to do should really be limited to the young ones.. the ones who would still be alive in 2050. Funny how I have never come across anyone younger than 40 or so who thinks global warming is a hoax.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:37   #1279
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
FWIW they seemed to have had a few big waves over the boat and lost one of their chairs. He also mentions that te trip was not "recommended"

Riley talks about it at 4:07:18

https://youtu.be/XWkf33S92t0?t=13003
I love how Nikki takes the podium after Riley and says.. meh.. trip was no biggie.. the newbies here were all stressed out of course but me.. cool as a turkey
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:37   #1280
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
FWIW they seemed to have had a few big waves over the boat and lost one of their chairs. He also mentions that te trip was not "recommended"

Riley talks about it at 4:07:18

https://youtu.be/XWkf33S92t0?t=13003
i liked the bit where they kissed the pontoon as they got off the boat
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:54   #1281
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Another reason for those bad tacking angles on approach, the boat is overloaded.
The waterline of the bottom paint is way under the surface.

It is evident in the video where they are tied up to the dock.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:58   #1282
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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I love how Nikki takes the podium after Riley and says.. meh.. trip was no biggie.. the newbies here were all stressed out of course but me.. cool as a turkey
I have no reason to doubt her and every reason to think she was speaking her mind. It wasn't that big a deal. Some was good fortune and a good bit was good skippering. Sure looks to me like Ms. Henderson was the skipper. I'd sail for her - not only is she demonstrably good but her personnel management skills are good also. She needs to get more sleep.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:59   #1283
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
You are actually absolutely right.. If the system really worked, you should see a benefit to your personal economic status.. mostly cause you would have saved a ton of money other people had to pay to drive their cars or take their flights etc. But since carbon offsets are far from being a universal system with everyone on board (every player will accuse the others of cheating them.. "I'd be a sucker to pay that!".. it is like paying to breathe!) .. so .. back to human nature. No way in hell that would ever work. I wonder who came up with that.

Anyhow.. like I said.. "whatever". Reality will take care of itself. The only obscenity is that folks older than 50 or so dare to have an opinion on this when they have little skin in the game. This debate and the votes on what to do should really be limited to the young ones.. the ones who would still be alive in 2050. Funny how I have never come across anyone younger than 40 or so who thinks global warming is a hoax.
Maybe those abit older have learnt some skeptical wisdom ? maybe they dont doubt global warming exists, but arent convinced it's entirely man made? maybe some realize that it's more complex than just a young girl screaming "fix it" and blaming those before her that have enabled her to have her wonderful life sailing across an ocean?maybe some have lived long enough and experienced enough that naivety is no longer a luxury , they may just need more than a feel good story? maybe some have seen enough to question motives? maybe some are just wise enough to question rather than just follow? maybe some just have a better understanding of human nature, maybe hypocrisy is more easily seen by some.......
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:23   #1284
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Maybe those abit older have learnt some skeptical wisdom ? maybe they dont doubt global warming exists, but arent convinced it's entirely man made? maybe some realize that it's more complex than just a young girl screaming "fix it" and blaming those before her that have enabled her to have her wonderful life sailing across an ocean?maybe some have lived long enough and experienced enough that naivety is no longer a luxury , they may just need more than a feel good story? maybe some have seen enough to question motives? maybe some are just wise enough to question rather than just follow? maybe some just have a better understanding of human nature, maybe hypocrisy is more easily seen by some.......
..... and maybe, just maybe, these are some of the reasons why society determined a long time ago that children deserve special status -- they are often excused for their rash, impulsive judgments & actions, but for similar reasons are not allowed to decide what policies are best for the rest of us.

As for young vs. old adults, there is some truth to the oft-repeated quip about not having a heart if you're not liberal when you're young, but not having a brain if you don't become more conservative as you age.

As is so often the case, there are far too many -- young & old -- who don't yet know what they don't yet know. Dealing with CC responsibly is not a us vs. them, black & white proposition, even though the politicians & media have framed it as such with their simplistic "denialist" labels and other catch-phrases designed to divide. Like the excuses given for dismissing the opinions of people over 50 because they "have no skin in the game." I don't fault anyone for reaching the conclusions they do, my only problem is when they do so without any effort at critical thinking. It's not only cut & paste sailors we should be wary of (thanks Auspicious ), but cut & paste citizens!
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:38   #1285
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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you explain carbon offsets very well.....were do i go to get my cash rebate for all the CO2 that i have not created during a life of sail?
Made up for by the amount of methane you have been spreading around here ,,,and other places
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:41   #1286
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

They made it. Thanks for all the good navigation related analysis. Congratulations also to all who made it through all the 1000+ messages (not me ).
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:44   #1287
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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..... and maybe, just maybe, these are some of the reasons why society determined a long time ago that children deserve special status -- they are often excused for their rash, impulsive judgments & actions, but for similar reasons are not allowed to decide what policies are best for the rest of us.

As for young vs. old adults, there is some truth to the oft-repeated quip about not having a heart if you're not liberal when you're young, but not having a brain if you don't become more conservative as you age.

As is so often the case, there are far too many -- young & old -- who don't yet know what they don't yet know. Dealing with CC responsibly is not a us vs. them, black & white proposition, even though the politicians & media have framed it as such with their simplistic "denialist" labels and other catch-phrases designed to divide. Like the excuses given for dismissing the opinions of people over 50 because they "have no skin in the game." I don't fault anyone for reaching the conclusions they do, my only problem is when they do so without any effort at critical thinking. It's not only cut & paste sailors we should be wary of (thanks Auspicious ), but cut & paste citizens!
As soon as the "madness of crowds" is in play critical thinking goes out the door and labels get thrown around, I'm sure some here would toss me in the "denialist " camp, yet they'd be wrong, but it suits their objective " I must win".

Your right, it shouldn't be a "us agaisnt them" theme, it should be a conversation, the right to question should be encouraged, when it's not, so much is lost. This was clearly seen in this thread, anyone that questioned the wisdom of the trip or the motives however well reasoned or thought out was shouted down, the most abusive person in the thread was the one with the most simplistic views, the feel good narrative must be maintained regardless of inconvenient details.

Even Riley said the trip isnt "reccomended" and that's not even taking the baby into account, yet when this was brought up early in the thread it drew scorn from those that need to see the fairytale.

Comments like "your an oil man" to labeling the likes of Atoll (who's extremely experienced) with derogatory names only destroy any chance of real dialogue, when ones ego is so heavily attached to being right there is absolutely no chance of rational conversation or debate.

Although I haven't changed my views on the wisdom of such a voyage and the motives for undertaking it I do congratulate La Vagabond, great achievement and excellent business move, they will benefit greatly I have no doubt and have no problem with, good on them.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:59   #1288
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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...
Anyhow.. like I said.. "whatever". Reality will take care of itself. The only obscenity is that folks older than 50 or so dare to have an opinion on this when they have little skin in the game. This debate and the votes on what to do should really be limited to the young ones.. the ones who would still be alive in 2050. Funny how I have never come across anyone younger than 40 or so who thinks global warming is a hoax.
There are no educated people denying there have been 15 or 16 major climate shifts in the last million years. (defined as 5 to 15°f global changes in average temperatures and the associated weather patterns that go with that) Scientific research has proven the earth's life cycle includes this event roughly every 65,000 years. The last event was roughly 67,000 years ago. Ignorance of the planet's life cycle allows focus on recent post industrial age events to blame humans for a cycle that was established long before humans existed.
The only true obscenity is saying that someone with 3 biological children, 6 stepchildren, and over half a dozen grandchildren doesn't have skin in the game. That is insulting and degrading to say the least.
Most everyone over 50 remembers when that data was released, I am not quite 50 and I remember watching specials about it on tv back in the day... The same mistakes folks are making now, they made then as well. You can't say it will happen by ' x ' date, but we know it is happening as we live and will probably be a few hundred years before any stabilization, much worse ahead.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:05   #1289
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pirate Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

To the ones saying the 'over 50's have no skin in the game' that may be true..
But many of us do have Genes in the game.. they may be happy to dump on their genes from a great height but others are not.. so sit on that opinion and swivel
As for Riley saying its not recommended.. he's gotten soft on the permanant Milk Run..
W to E is way more fun than downwind 24/7..
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:12   #1290
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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As Gord said.. probably a waste of time trying to convince others of one's point of view, so I am not trying .. but for the record.. that is the whole point of carbon offsets btw. The wealthy are some of the worst carbon emitters.. that's how the wealthy got wealthy .. industry.. remember?

Carbon offsets are an (imperfect) attempt to "close" the feedback loop in earth's economy. The economic machine spews CO2 as a byproduct of its operation, but this doesn't have a cost. Or rather, the real cost is not borne by the producer directly. This is the gist of the whole problem actually. If the real cost of dumping CO2 into the atmosphere had to be paid directly by the dumper, well.. it would close the feedback loop and things would regulate themselves. A great idea but probably unlikely to really work, for the same reason your point of view is that it is a scam and you'd be a sucker to pay it. It relies on nothing but people's understanding of the reason and honesty and their sense of fairness... it is like whoever thought this up had never ever met a human being.So probably some geeky scientist

BTW I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.. you can believe what you want to believe. It is irrelevant. In the end reality is what it will be and trying to argue against it is laughable and silly. The only thing I believe in is that humans are too self serving and selfish to sacrifice their personal short term standard of life in favor of long term well being of the whole. So folks will rationalize why they don't "believe" in whatever it is they don't want to believe cause well.. it is inconvenient.
Imagine the resources it would take to provide everyone on the planet with a sailboat (or powerboat) like the people who post here (presumably) have.

Obviously, none of us were willing to forego the purchase of a boat, in the name of saving the planet.

But, I guess, if I could buy carbon credits, then I could do whatever I wanted to, and still feel good about it. Hell, I could even scold other people who polluted less than me, who didn't buy them. So, there's that.
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