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Old 03-12-2019, 10:17   #1291
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
they were tacking into a falling tide,so probably 2-3 knots of current against them coming down the river.
high water was at 8am.

if they had timed their arrival for after low water at 2pm the current would have carried them up to the marina with just a couple of tacks.

seems like they still have a bit more to learn,they have probably no experince with tidal waters apart from briefly in the str of gibraltar and panama over the 23,000 miles that they have already sailed
Would they have arrived later, though?

Anyway. Having more things left to learn is a good reason to get up in the morning!
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:22   #1292
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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As for Riley saying its not recommended.. he's gotten soft on the permanant Milk Run..
W to E is way more fun than downwind 24/7..
The key word here is "fun".
My fun happens in that soft direction.
To each his own.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:29   #1293
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

I suspect we will soon see La Vaga adorned with the latest "green" offerings from Solbian, AirX, Watt&Sea among others. Or maybe even adorned on a new Atlantic 57 (for next year's UN conference).

All carbon credits to offset the production of all this 'greenery' payable to Atoll, of course. No credit cards or personal checks please. Cash only.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:35   #1294
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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...
Admit it Riley is an outstanding Skipper and even more importantly is a solid, humble, honest human and displays so many positive personal traits. ...

Have you met him in person and spent time with him to develop this opinion of his character? Iím not writing that heís not any of these things, but you do realise that a social media profile is not real life? It is a purely constructed and carefully curated BUSINESS profile and has very little to do with the real attributes of the person.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:40   #1295
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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I love how Nikki takes the podium after Riley and says.. meh.. trip was no biggie.. the newbies here were all stressed out of course but me.. cool as a turkey

Well, Riley and Elayna have to pay for the repairs while Nikki goes on to the next project. One of the nice aspects of sailing other peoplesí boats. So in the context of cruising, boat breaking conditions are not fun. When racing, or simply sailing, on OPBs the boat breaking conditions are fun.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:00   #1296
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by mglonnro View Post
Would they have arrived later, though?

Anyway. Having more things left to learn is a good reason to get up in the morning!
if they had taken the more seamanlike and safer option they would have arrived earlier in daylight as high water was at 8am,but the press and the crowds would have been in bed

they drifted for about 4 hours waiting for the press to arrive before entering the river
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:10   #1297
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They are lucky to arrive on neaps.. in spring tides the ebb can reach 6kts at the mouth of the river.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:25   #1298
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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They are lucky to arrive on neaps.. in spring tides the ebb can reach 6kts at the mouth of the river.

yes entering a marina breakwater crabbing sideways at 7 knots whilst hardly having any speed over the ground is not something that i ever want to repeat!
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:33   #1299
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
I love how Nikki takes the podium after Riley and says.. meh.. trip was no biggie.. the newbies here were all stressed out of course but me.. cool as a turkey
Yes, but that really is the difference between a professional sailor / mariner, and a cruising softy who only a few years ago didn't even know how to sail at all...

I note it often here on the forum too, 'experienced cruisers' some even moderators here, giving others advice, but not even really being very experienced sailors themselves.

Having a major YouTube channel or being a Mod does not the sailor maketh...

Quote:
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Admit it Riley is an outstanding Skipper
I don't have anything personally against Riley or Elayna. In fact they have done a great job overall going from non sailors, to cruisers, to getting a bigger boat, and developing a major YouTube channel and Brand. Well done.

But it is just nonsense to suggest that Riley is an 'outstanding Skipper'. Flash boat or not, up until recently he/they were still constantly making newbee mistakes, and that's only what they chose to publicise on their videos...

But that is to be expected. They don't have a sailing background and are simply not very experienced. To that end I did somewhat take umbrage at a few of their videos attempting to teach others how to sail, anchor, etc. Ha! Hilarious...

However one benefit of this trip will be that Riley will now have a lot more experience, a lot more confidence, and will have learnt a lot from a professional sailor about other ways to do things (although let's not forget that racing sailors can be good at making the boat go fast but not always as good as you might think at 'seamanship' related matters).

My 2 cents
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:48   #1300
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Yes, but that really is the difference between a professional sailor / mariner, and a cruising softy who only a few years ago didn't even know how to sail at all...

I note it often here on the forum too, 'experienced cruisers' some even moderators here, giving others advice, but not even really being very experienced sailors themselves.
So...what makes a "professional" sailor?
It is a term that to me encompasses far more than just a salary and the ability to go fast in dangerous conditions.

Racers are inherently risk takers and that is definitely not "professional"

Would you want your professional airline pilot to be a risk taker?

Nicky is an amazing person riding the wave of corporate sponsership.

All of that is a distortion of what I know it takes to become an all round competent Mariner
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:01   #1301
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

I agree, and I alluded to this in the last sentence (in brackets) of my previous post.

Also note that I said that Riley will have learnt "other" ways to do things - not necessarily better ways.

Becoming an all round competent mariner is in my opinion quite difficult, takes years (if not decades) and that also assumes that you also have someone competent and knowledgeable to learn from too, as well as being in a position where you are experiencing all of the various necessary conditions and situations first hand.

That is quite difficult to achieve in itself.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:17   #1302
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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The only true obscenity is saying that someone with 3 biological children, 6 stepchildren, and over half a dozen grandchildren doesn't have skin in the game.
Why so many children? Way over replacement levels and your children may well not be done yet. Too much skin in the game. Population is our biggest problem. Everything else is a symptom.

Quote:
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As for Riley saying its not recommended.. he's gotten soft on the permanant Milk Run..
W to E is way more fun than downwind 24/7..
Mostly agree. I'd say he didn't get soft, he never hardened up. Perhaps that's why he needed/wanted/was required to have a pro skipper on board.

Conventional wisdom often takes quite a while to catch up with reality. Modern boats (say the last few decades) generally make a close reach the most pleasant point of sail, especially in warm regions. Too many cut and paste sailors reading advice they don't understand and applying it out of context.

Which does lead to the question: how do you heat a boat in cold climates effectively without fossil fuels?

Still waiting for an 8 kW nuclear generator for around $12kUS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
if they had taken the more seamanlike and safer option they would have arrived earlier in daylight as high water was at 8am,but the press and the crowds would have been in bed

they drifted for about 4 hours waiting for the press to arrive before entering the river
Business decision. Good decision, poor logistics. With all the satellite comms on that boat there should have been no problem regardless of timing. I expect the press insisted on good light - oh and not to have to get up too early and interrupt their morning latte. Coming in on a favorable tide and sailing to the dock would have been on message but would it count if no one was there to see?
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:27   #1303
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

The brave seafarers on LA VAGABONDE arrived safely in Lisbon, somewhat delayed after having to beat against the wind and the outgoing tidal current of River Tagus this morning. They were greeted and welcomed by a large crowd, and Riley Whitelum, Nikki Henderson and Greta Thunberg gave short speeches whereafter Greta Thunberg answered questions from journalists.
Well done! Well said!
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:36   #1304
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
But that is to be expected. They don't have a sailing background and are simply not very experienced. To that end I did somewhat take umbrage at a few of their videos attempting to teach others how to sail, anchor, etc. Ha! Hilarious...

However one benefit of this trip will be that Riley will now have a lot more experience, a lot more confidence, and will have learnt a lot from a professional sailor about other ways to do things (although let's not forget that racing sailors can be good at making the boat go fast but not always as good as you might think at 'seamanship' related matters).

My 2 cents
Not really sure why you think they don't have a sailing background. They've taken a sailboat from the med all the way to Australia and now a cat across the Atlantic twice. Only on this trip they were accompanied by an "experienced skipper". They may be "goofy" and show their mistakes on video but inexperienced they are not. They have more sea experience than most of us.

Riley just suffers from the typical Aussie casualness towards everything!

Wow I never expected to be on their side of the argument!
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:44   #1305
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

They don't have a sailing background. Riley had never sailed before he flew to Europe and bought the Beneteau.

Having a sailing background maybe means that you grew up sailing, for example.

And it's kind of my point, and something quite concerning about the average cruising sailor, that they can have so many sailing miles, ocean miles even, and still not really have a clue about some things and/or keep making basic errors.

They are getting better though. Especially since they got the Outremer.
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