Chart Sticker Shock 2018

[Va2shp]

Originally Posted by Benz

My boat floats in one fathom. However old the measuring system is, it is not deficient. What is deficient is the small-minded communist meddlers who want everybody to think the same way, and call them stupid when they don't.

Communist.... What the hell is this about????????

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Benz

I can't speak to the mixing of sciences--all I do is build things and navigate boats. But I will point out that the way we measure time, while it has been given a metric definition, doesn't really fit the paradigm of tens, hundreds, thousands, etc. Yet time is critical to many (most, all?) scientific endeavors. So not quite across all disciplines, and it is that awkwardness that bothers me. Time just works so well with the duodecimal system, that I believe the world would have been better served to make everything--money, measurements, weights, all of it--duodecimal.

Of course everything in the universe can't be forced into tens, after all an earth year is +/- 365.25 days. The same applies to many natural phenomena. But money, measurement, weights? I never was good with pence, shillings, pounds, guineas and the vagaries of UK money. Money in units of ten is so much easier. Measurements? Not too complicated when your only measuring to an accuracy of 1/4" or 1/8" but anything that requires real accuracy switches to what? The decimal system, and measures in thousandths. Would you like to construct a device measuring tolerances in units of 1/512" or 1/1024".

Something I experienced in engineering school made up my mind completely on this issue. Almost everything in engineering was done in metric, it just worked better in so many ways. However since we were in the USA we would occasionally have to answer a problem in SAE units to insure all were familiar with old school units. Very quickly I figured out it was easier to convert the problem to metric, calculate the answer, then convert the final answer back to SAE. Curious about this I asked a number of friends and almost all of them did the same.

Bottom line to me, you want a pint of beer, approximate distance or length or similar then SAE works but when you need to get accurate, work in complex scientific or engineering disciplines or similar then metric without any doubt is vastly superior. So now that leaves us with, do we keep working in two different systems just to keep the familiarity of pints at the local pub or inches to measure a 2x4 (which isn't really 2" by 4" anyway) or just use one system that does it all?

On a practical, economic basis, the only countries still officially not metric are the USA, Myanmar and Liberia. By population that means 95% of the world is metric. It would make US produced equipment, cars, trucks and all sorts of things more competitive in the export market if we were compatible with everyone else.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Benz

Exactly so, mostly--I just wish the world had all gone to Imperial, and made that the universal standard. The reason you had to search for both SAE and metric bolts for your old cars was that the manufacturers half-heartedly tried to go metric. If they'd kept it all SAE (and the whole world as well, while we're at it), there would not be this confusion of trying to find metric bolts. It would have been just as easy, back then, to make feet and inches the world standard, and that they did not is truly a pity.

You should rebuild an MG TD with SAE and put in a Volvo engine. You add
Whitworth to the mix. Makes for an interesting tool box.
















w

[stormalong]

Geez, no one took my suggestion to have a pint and chill.

This thread has been hijacked.

Duodecimal is only a good system of measurement if you were born with twelve fingers.

[jlcnuke]

FYI, West Marine "supersale" has a bunch of charts on sale https://www.westmarine.com/outlet/ma...N-2yc5?Nrpp=30

In case anyone is interested in charts still...

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Geez, no one took my suggestion to have a pint and chill.

This thread has been hijacked.

Duodecimal is only a good system of measurement if you were born with twelve fingers.

Pint or half a liter, or a sextarius (if you like ancient Rome)?!

[Mariano]

A question to those with good memory. Back in 76/77 when I was in public school in Washington DC , all students received a ruler stamped "METRIC IN AMERICA"(still have it). What happened with that initiative?

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Va2shp

Communist.... What the hell is this about????????

Since you ask....
It is part of the communist ethos that everybody should think the same way, be the same way, do things the same way. Nobody should be different, they should all think what Big Brother Government tells them to. So when Big Brother says: "Everybody is using the metric system, so it must be better. You should only use the metric system too and be like everyone else," it is the communist mentality speaking. On a related note, this is why I am against public education--it seeks to make everyone know, think and believe exactly and only what Big Brother wants them to. It is their way of gaining control of the masses.
So while externally the communists have lost in that most of their governments have or are collapsing, they are still winning in that they're getting a lot of people to unthinkingly use the metric system, believe in evolution, global warming, the big bang theory, and all sorts of other foolishness.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Geez, no one took my suggestion to have a pint and chill.

This thread has been hijacked.

Duodecimal is only a good system of measurement if you were born with twelve fingers.

Or with a working brain.

[Va2shp]

Originally Posted by Benz

Since you ask....
It is part of the communist ethos that everybody should think the same way, be the same way, do things the same way. Nobody should be different, they should all think what Big Brother Government tells them to. So when Big Brother says: "Everybody is using the metric system, so it must be better. You should only use the metric system too and be like everyone else," it is the communist mentality speaking. On a related note, this is why I am against public education--it seeks to make everyone know, think and believe exactly and only what Big Brother wants them to. It is their way of gaining control of the masses.
So while externally the communists have lost in that most of their governments have or are collapsing, they are still winning in that they're getting a lot of people to unthinkingly use the metric system, believe in evolution, global warming, the big bang theory, and all sorts of other foolishness.

By the way I match whatever the paper chart is using, but I guess we must be from a different planet...

[Benz]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Of course everything in the universe can't be forced into tens, after all an earth year is +/- 365.25 days. The same applies to many natural phenomena. But money, measurement, weights? I never was good with pence, shillings, pounds, guineas and the vagaries of UK money. Money in units of ten is so much easier. Measurements? Not too complicated when your only measuring to an accuracy of 1/4" or 1/8" but anything that requires real accuracy switches to what? The decimal system, and measures in thousandths. Would you like to construct a device measuring tolerances in units of 1/512" or 1/1024".

Something I experienced in engineering school made up my mind completely on this issue. Almost everything in engineering was done in metric, it just worked better in so many ways. However since we were in the USA we would occasionally have to answer a problem in SAE units to insure all were familiar with old school units. Very quickly I figured out it was easier to convert the problem to metric, calculate the answer, then convert the final answer back to SAE. Curious about this I asked a number of friends and almost all of them did the same.

Bottom line to me, you want a pint of beer, approximate distance or length or similar then SAE works but when you need to get accurate, work in complex scientific or engineering disciplines or similar then metric without any doubt is vastly superior. So now that leaves us with, do we keep working in two different systems just to keep the familiarity of pints at the local pub or inches to measure a 2x4 (which isn't really 2" by 4" anyway) or just use one system that does it all?

On a practical, economic basis, the only countries still officially not metric are the USA, Myanmar and Liberia. By population that means 95% of the world is metric. It would make US produced equipment, cars, trucks and all sorts of things more competitive in the export market if we were compatible with everyone else.

Since--as you partly pointed out--beyond 64ths of an inch SAE usually goes to thousandths, it seems irrelevant at that point to say that one unit is better than another--we're dealing with super-fine quantities here. So with inches you get the best of it all: fractions down to what the eye can detect (a 64th is smaller than a millimeter), and then decimal places where only machines can tell the difference. Though thousandths can be expressed in fraction form as well.
But as to metric being universally standard:if it is so, why does the notation change from place to place? Sometimes I see "3,5" sometimes "3.5" What is the comma for? Does it mean something different than a point? Is it a decimal comma? If they mean the same thing, why have it different? If a decimal isn't enough, should it be the "Decimalcomma" system? Or perhaps the "Decimalcommunist."

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Benz

Since you ask....
It is part of the communist ethos that everybody should think the same way, be the same way, do things the same way. Nobody should be different, they should all think what Big Brother Government tells them to.

Wrong. It could be part of a totalitarian government of any ilk. Remember the Nazis? In case you don't remember, Nazis are the opposite of communists and they tried to kill everyone that was different.

By the way, I fixed the rest of it for you.

Originally Posted by Benz

Since you ask....
It is part of the communist ethos that everybody should think the same way, be the same way, do things the same way. Nobody should be different, they should all think what Big Brother Government tells them to. So when Big Brother says: rational people say "Everybody is using the metric system, so it must be better. because it is better. You should only use the metric system too and be like everyone else," and use the most logical system it is the communist rational mentality speaking. On a related note, this is why I am against public education--it seeks to make everyone know, think and believe exactly and only what Big Brother wants them to.think. It is their way of gaining control of educating the masses.
So while externally the communists have lost in that most of their governments have or are collapsing, they are still winning in that they're have nothing at all to do withgetting a lot of people to unthinkingly use the metric system, believe in evolution, global warming, the big bang theory, and all sorts of other foolishness scientifically proven facts.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Benz

Since--as you partly pointed out--beyond 64ths of an inch SAE usually goes to thousandths, it seems irrelevant at that point to say that one unit is better than another--we're dealing with super-fine quantities here. So with inches you get the best of it all: fractions down to what the eye can detect (a 64th is smaller than a millimeter), and then decimal places where only machines can tell the difference. Though thousandths can be expressed in fraction form as well.
But as to metric being universally standard:if it is so, why does the notation change from place to place? Sometimes I see "3,5" sometimes "3.5" What is the comma for? Does it mean something different than a point? Is it a decimal comma? If they mean the same thing, why have it different? If a decimal isn't enough, should it be the "Decimalcomma" system? Or perhaps the "Decimalcommunist."

Seems you are just getting desperate to justify an indefensible position. Comma vs periods is just a cultural thing,z nothing more. They are different for the same reason that the Brits write colour or cheque and Americans write color or check.

And if the SAE system is so perfect why do you have to change from fractions to decimals. With metric the system works perfectly from the largest to the smallest units.

[Va2shp]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Wrong. It could be part of a totalitarian government of any ilk. Remember the Nazis? In case you don't remember, Nazis are the opposite of communists and they tried to kill everyone that was different.

By the way, I fixed the rest of it for you.

Ha Ha Ha!

[Benz]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Wrong. It could be part of a totalitarian government of any ilk. Remember the Nazis? In case you don't remember, Nazis are the opposite of communists and they tried to kill everyone that was different.

By the way, I fixed the rest of it for you.

Remember that the Nazis and the Communists both used the metric system.