Yep - we dragged!

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Of course not all debis on the bottom inhibits anchoring.
When we first dropped we were in mud and drug a little on backing down, then the anchor suddenly “bit” next morning I found out why Attachment 169816
That is a 40 kg Rocna, so that cable is bigger than it looks at first.
If so hadn’t oversized my windlass, I don’t think I would have gotten it up

Lucky u got it up! Cables are where we dive for spare anchors

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Of course not all debis on the bottom inhibits anchoring.
When we first dropped we were in mud and drug a little on backing down, then the anchor suddenly “bit” next morning I found out w
That is a 40 kg Rocna, so that cable is bigger than it looks at first.
If so hadn’t oversized my windlass, I don’t think I would have gotten it up

This is an oyster farm cable we snagged anchoring in 80ft in Huahine, French Polynesia. It took a session in the water to get it free.

[hpeer]

I have snagged a power cable and an abandonded fishing net cable. The weirdest thing I snagged, which almost cost me the boat, was some BIG hunk of canvas or vinyl fabric. It looked a lot like sailcloth but has some bright floral pattern like a 60’s table cloth. I was anchored deep, like 60’, thus not a good scope lay. I backed down as hard as my aging 13 hp would allow, but when the willywaas came this thing broke loose. The good news was it was sliding across the bottom slowly. I was on a high promatory at least half a mile away when I saw the boat start to move. I ran back to the dink, loosing my shoes in the muck a couple of times, and rowed furiously to the boat. It was far enough that I had too much time to think. A couple of local fellows in a skiff beat me by less than minute so they would have saved her. By that time she was within a boat length of the rocks. That was my second year sailing.

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Of course not all debis on the bottom inhibits anchoring.
When we first dropped we were in mud and drug a little on backing down, then the anchor suddenly “bit” next morning I found out why Attachment 169816
That is a 40 kg Rocna, so that cable is bigger than it looks at first.
If so hadn’t oversized my windlass, I don’t think I would have gotten it up

We have pulled up similar chain (twice) and then the other day some cable, all in Marsh Harbour, Bahamas. We were told these were laid for hurricane events to catch dragging boats. The first chain was huge and windlass could only get the chain to the surface (just) but could lift no further. We tied a line to the Rocna hoop and dropped the anchor a few feet and the chain fell off.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

The first chain was huge and windlass could only get the chain to the surface (just) but could lift no further. We tied a line to the Rocna hoop and dropped the anchor a few feet and the chain fell off.

That is how I got mine off too, the picture is as high as I could get our anchor.
It was Jan in N Fl, so cold water to me. I have a boat hook that will automatically wrap a line around a cleat etc. so I used it.

https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s

[zeehag]

LOVE my bruce.

friend related story of mooring in yelapa and as he ate watching boat AND MOORING attempt premature exit from bay. oops. as there is essentially no bottom in most of yelapas bay, this is not uncommon occurrence

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is how I got mine off too, the picture is as high as I could get our anchor.
It was Jan in N Fl, so cold water to me. I have a boat hook that will automatically wrap a line around a cleat etc. so I used it.

https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s

These things are fantastic, we leave it in the cockpit, and visitors are awed by it. Need to demo it in slow motion a couple of times, so they can see the magic.

[MV Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I have a boat hook that will automatically wrap a line around a cleat etc. so I used it.

https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s

We had one, too. Pretty ingenious design. Wish I'd thought of it.

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Of course not all debris on the bottom inhibits anchoring...

A few years ago we were anchored in a very restricted harbour/anchorage on the north side of Ilse De Sein off the west coast of France, whilst gale force winds blew for about five days solid. With 20-30' tides, to maintain adequate scope and still keep clear of the moored fishing boats around us we spent the whole time, day and night keeping anchor watch and shortening/lengthening our chain's scope every two hours; I think we were the only visiting boat that didn't eventually drag and get forced to brave the maelstrom further out . Then when the weather finally eased and we came to leave, the anchor wouldn't move at all; I waited until near low tide when the water was only 8-10' deep and snorkelled down - it was March, the only place I've experienced colder water is in Maine! - to find we were snagged on a ground chain that had 9" long links of about 2" diameter; we hadn't been going anywhere!

We did at least learn from the experience though: A couple of years later we were on the west coast of Corsica when an imminent SW going W/NW gale appeared in the forecasts, our best (only?) option looked like being an anchorage at Campomoro, but only if we could get really close inshore. Having arrived and threaded our way through a fleet of other - albeit bigger - yachts with the same idea, we found that the seabed close inshore had only patches of sand amongst lots of huge rocks. We tried anyway: dropping anchor, backing down then diving to see how it looked (at least the water was warm that day!) but invariably the anchor hadn't dug and we just had the chain or a fluke snagged on/between rocks. On about our fifth attempt I dove down to find we'd dropped the anchor at one side of a huge rock and then fallen back at the other side of it; the CQR anchor was just laid on the seabed with the chain in a 180-degree loop around the rock. Rather than try again I got Lesley to let out some more chain and quickly looped it about four times around the anchor itself. We now had a 5 ton mooring block for our 3 ton boat and were probably the only ones to sleep soundly that night.

Re the original post: Fifteen years cruising have taught/convinced me that:
1. Anchors and chains are like dairy cows, a good big one is always going to beat a good little'un.
2. There are three types of yachtie - those that have never anchored, those that have dragged at some time or other and those who've dragged but lie about it. Of the third category these seem most prevalent amongst those who've spent money on an expensive new-generation anchor, particularly a Rocna. Only about a three months ago there was a guy pontificating in a yottie's bar whose Rocna had 'never let him down'. I interjected to enquire how the gelcoat repair had come out after he'd gouged his port side across our bow roller in Guadeloupe a couple of years before? As recocognition dawned, his face was a picture.
3.With the exception of the Britany anchor - thank god there are fewer in use out here than in the Mediterranean! - all anchors do their job, the trick is getting them laid/set right to begin with and that's the single biggest advantage of the new-generation anchors, they're much more forgiving of poor/careless anchoring technique.
4. Carry a Fortress, they stow easily, add very little weight and for some reason - I've no idea why - seem to hold way better in thin mud than anything else we've tried, even the similarly shaped and much heavier (see point 1 above) Danforth.

[Bean Counter]

Attached are two photos taken around the same time. The first is our 40kg Rocna with an OK set in rubbly sort of bottom. The second is of the Delta anchor set by the catamaran behind us. The weather was stormy 30knots plus - neither of us dragged!




delta.jpg Views: 184 Size: 130.4 KB ID: 170932" style="margin: 2px" />

[sailorjg]

Practical Sailor has published several articles on anchor types for different conditions and bottoms. Also, the Rocna site had a good comparison between anchor types. Obviously, theirs turned out best. West Marine has a good article on anchoring as well. Google 'How to Anchor Securely'. Anchoring Techniques - Sailing Issues is another good source of information.
Anchoring is a science. Knowing where to anchor and what anchor to use according to bottom types takes a while to learn. We had a CQR that was great in mud but awful in sand. A Danforth held us well in mud and other soft bottoms but these need to be inspected regularly. Raising it after a blow in Costa Rica, I felt a pop and retrieved only the shaft.
Our most reliable anchor was an oversized, (60 lb) German-made, Bugel. Essentially it looks like a Rocna and may well have been their inspiration. The major difference is that it has a flat downward curved blade that digs in to any surface.
Anchors must be set by going astern as it reaches the bottom, while paying out chain. Once you have paid out your desired scope, keep backing until you no longer have any way on. Observing the rode will also tell you if you are on a rocky bottom. Our CQR was very frustrating in sand as it would flop to one side and refuse to dig in. I had to dive on it many times to set it.
Also important is the scope. Anchor manufacturers recommend 7 to 1 ratio, obviously you'll need less in a crowded anchorage, but the longer the better. The more length of the chain, and, thus, the more weight on the bottom decreases the angle or catenary thus ensuring that the anchor performs as designed. This can be increased by using a snubber. Snubber length should be sufficient to keep the point of attachment well below the surface. The snubber also takes the load off the windlass and reduces yawing. Some people use kellets to reduce the catenary.
Rope rodes are ok for short term anchoring. I highly recommend full chain rode for the reasons above.w
When expecting a blow it is also prudent to put out a second anchor.
We always put out a anchor buoy to mark where our anchor was and as a tripping line.
Lastly, whenever you anchor you must have an anchor alarm that will notify you as soon as your boat drifts out of the 'comfort' zone that you have established. Our favourite was Drag Queen, a free downloadable app. The alarm is loud and can't be mistaken for anything else. That saved our bacon a few times in Panama. A word of caution: ensure that the sound is turned up on the electronic aid that you are using and that it has sufficient power to last the time you'll be relying on it. We had it on a 3-G I-Pad.

[Nicholson58]

We rode out Hermine in Newport two years ago. Wemanchored between the mooring field north of Goat Island and the high bridge. Pretty good shelter there in 11 feet with 175 feet of chain. At 45 knots we began to drag our 121# Rocna with the boat making +/- 40 degree swings. We took watches steering using the wind driven current and reduced the swing to 20 degrees total. That stopped the drag. The anchor later came up carrying a goopy mud and shell marl mix. It sort of behaved like jello. Possible your bottom conditions were locally less than ideal.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by sailorjg

Practical Sailor has published several articles on anchor types for different conditions and bottoms. Also, the Rocna site had a good comparison between anchor types. Obviously, theirs turned out best. West Marine has a good article on anchoring as well. Google 'How to Anchor Securely'. Anchoring Techniques - Sailing Issues is another good source of information.
Anchoring is a science. Knowing where to anchor and what anchor to use according to bottom types takes a while to learn. We had a CQR that was great in mud but awful in sand. A Danforth held us well in mud and other soft bottoms but these need to be inspected regularly. Raising it after a blow in Costa Rica, I felt a pop and retrieved only the shaft.
Our most reliable anchor was an oversized, (60 lb) German-made, Bugel. Essentially it looks like a Rocna and may well have been their inspiration. The major difference is that it has a flat downward curved blade that digs in to any surface.
Anchors must be set by going astern as it reaches the bottom, while paying out chain. Once you have paid out your desired scope, keep backing until you no longer have any way on. Observing the rode will also tell you if you are on a rocky bottom. Our CQR was very frustrating in sand as it would flop to one side and refuse to dig in. I had to dive on it many times to set it.
Also important is the scope. Anchor manufacturers recommend 7 to 1 ratio, obviously you'll need less in a crowded anchorage, but the longer the better. The more length of the chain, and, thus, the more weight on the bottom decreases the angle or catenary thus ensuring that the anchor performs as designed. This can be increased by using a snubber. Snubber length should be sufficient to keep the point of attachment well below the surface. The snubber also takes the load off the windlass and reduces yawing. Some people use kellets to reduce the catenary.
Rope rodes are ok for short term anchoring. I highly recommend full chain rode for the reasons above.w
When expecting a blow it is also prudent to put out a second anchor.
We always put out a anchor buoy to mark where our anchor was and as a tripping line.
Lastly, whenever you anchor you must have an anchor alarm that will notify you as soon as your boat drifts out of the 'comfort' zone that you have established. Our favourite was Drag Queen, a free downloadable app. The alarm is loud and can't be mistaken for anything else. That saved our bacon a few times in Panama. A word of caution: ensure that the sound is turned up on the electronic aid that you are using and that it has sufficient power to last the time you'll be relying on it. We had it on a 3-G I-Pad.

The only reason the Bugel never wins the anchoring competitions is because there is no money to be made from that. The Bugel was the first roll bar anchor.
Do you really believe that the others that look so similar can have vastly superior performance.

[noelex 77]

Rocna took the idea of the Bugel and improved it significantly.

The fluke of the Bugel, which is a simple sharpened flat plate, was replaced with a shaped concave blade that was made heavier near the toe where weight is needed, and thinner towards the rear. This also enabled the fluke size to be substantially increased for the same overall anchor weight.

Finally and most importantly, they added skids, which together with the broader rear portion of the fluke, presents the toe to the substrate at a steeper more aggressive angle.

There are other subtle refinements of the basic Bugel idea.

The Manson Supreme has similar features and the Mantus extends the skids further with wings.

The Bugel is still a good, even very good anchor. Remarkable considering its very simple construction. If you want to make a home made anchor or buy a cheap no name anchor a Bugel design is great choice. There is very little to get wrong.

[Steve Bedford]

There are a lot of anchors out there that are not so well known that are the equal to and often superior to some of the well-known anchors. A lot of this comes from the amount of $$ a company has to promote their anchor. Some smaller lesser known anchors have excellent reputations and dedicated followers but don’t have the resources to do some anchor testing that of course they will win! (Seems an anchor design always wins their own test.) Some of these lesser known anchors are patiently waiting for an independent anchor test to participate in but never get asked. Makes some wonder why?

I do not put down other manufactured anchors. I try only to promote the benefits and strengths of our own anchors. We have never had an anchor returned because it did not meet or exceed expectations. Only returns because the anchor would not fit on a bow roller set-up. That can happen to a lot of anchors.

Folks seem to believe that if their anchor works well for them, it must be the best anchor in the world. Rather, what they have is an anchor that works well for them and it probably is one of the better designs in the world. I am confident there are other designs that would work equally well and perhaps even better.

Steve