Yep - we dragged!

[Fixer]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

We rode out Hermine in Newport two years ago. Wemanchored between the mooring field north of Goat Island and the high bridge. Pretty good shelter there in 11 feet with 175 feet of chain. At 45 knots we began to drag our 121# Rocna with the boat making +/- 40 degree swings. We took watches steering using the wind driven current and reduced the swing to 20 degrees total. That stopped the drag. The anchor later came up carrying a goopy mud and shell marl mix. It sort of behaved like jello. Possible your bottom conditions were locally less than ideal.

Rumor has it that the first 8 feet of Narragansett Bay is covered in beer cans and bottles - making holding a little goofy...

[Briney Bug]

The 3 keys to not dragging are: large enough anchor, the anchor design is right for the bottom, and enough scope.
Scope: at 7:1 the anchor has lost approximately 30% of its holding power, as compared to 10:1.
Design: if the anchor works in sand, it will work in mud. Many creeks/rivers accumulate a layer of leaves on their bottoms, therefore our recommendation, if there is vegetation of any type on the bottom is to use a fisherman-style anchor.
Size: For storm force winds, short or long lasting, any anchor should be at least 2 sizes bigger than that usually indicated in the manufacturer's chart, which is usually for winds under 30 knots. For mud, the anchor should be at least another size bigger.
Compare this list to what you had and see if there is a discrepancy somewhere.
Rudy Sechez

[sailorboy1]

Having now anchored all the way up and down the east coast of the USA (including that “special” Chesapeake mud) twice my feeling is that so much stuff that is written bout anchoring is hot air. I’ve used the same anchor and it has never drug once well set, and it’s only had a hard time setting twice, and has held us during blows even on a 3:1 scope in a tight anchorage.

Overall I feel the most important factor is to get out of the fetch

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Briney Bug

...Scope: at 7:1 the anchor has lost approximately 30% of its holding power, as compared to 10:1...if there is vegetation of any type on the bottom .. use a fisherman-style anchor...

But any anchor has 100% holding power until the chain catenary lifts from the bottom (at least in theory). More important than scope: 'get out of the fetch' (to quote above), or else: employ a nylon spring to absorb those snatch-loads, and for the reaally scary stuff: carry more than one anchor (and deploy them - they don't do much if left on deck).

Fisherman anchors were good in weed bottoms but have limited use otherwise - almost a waste of space nowadays as the fluke area is so tiny. If a Spade or a Mantus or an Excel won't cut through the weed then I'd be surprised if a fisherman would perform any better - those modern anchors really are quite cleverly designed.

[Steve Bedford]

Sailorboy1,
Great that you have never dragged, even at 3:1. Personally, I would not try that scope in most seabeds including the Chesapeake mud but if it works for you, fine. Your opinion of trying to get out of the fetch is spot on if that is possible and an option.

However, what I disagree with is, “so much stuff that is written bout anchoring is hot air.“ I highly recommend the anchoring book written by Rudy Sechez (the post prior to yours on this thread) and his wife Jill. It is one of the best anchoring books available for safe and secure anchoring in even severe conditions.

Steve

[sailorboy1]

See there's a book!!!!!!

I've never read anything other than the basic "how to do anchor" stuff, yet somehow I'm anchored over 600 days the past 2 years including in gales plus and never drug. In 8 years of boating I've only drug once and what I learned about that is "don't assume the anchor set, back down on it". BTW that was on a CQR, so maybe all the book needs to say is "get rid of your old school anchor and get new generation one". Anchoring isn't rocket science.

Forums seem to make dragging anchor like some common thing. Yet I've only seen it be a problem once and that was during a sudden gale that clocked into the anchorage with a 180 degrees direction change and some boats got their rode wrapped on their keels. Wonder if that's in the book?

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

See there's a book!!!!!!

I've never read anything other than the basic "how to do anchor" stuff, yet somehow I'm anchored over 600 days the past 2 years including in gales plus and never drug. In 8 years of boating I've only drug once and what I learned about that is "don't assume the anchor set, back down on it". BTW that was on a CQR, so maybe all the book needs to say is "get rid of your old school anchor and get new generation one". Anchoring isn't rocket science.

Forums seem to make dragging anchor like some common thing. Yet I've only seen it be a problem once and that was during a sudden gale that clocked into the anchorage with a 180 degrees direction change and some boats got their rode wrapped on their keels. Wonder if that's in the book?

This seems right to me based on my own experiences also.... as for the many who might be dragging, I can tell you last week I saw a dude come in on a charter jenneau and drop the anchor in the crowd with no less than 2 or 3 knots forward way on. The anchor chain sounded like it was sawing his bow in half...bet he'd drag in a blow But he was downwind, and so great fun to watch with a beer.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Having now anchored all the way up and down the east coast of the USA (including that “special” Chesapeake mud) twice my feeling is that so much stuff that is written bout anchoring is hot air. I’ve used the same anchor and it has never drug once well set, and it’s only had a hard time setting twice, and has held us during blows even on a 3:1 scope in a tight anchorage.

Overall I feel the most important factor is to get out of the fetch

NO doubt, good anchorage selection, can supercede everything else. As long as there is a good anchorage avaliable.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

See there's a book!!!!!!

I've never read anything other than the basic "how to do anchor" stuff, yet somehow I'm anchored over 600 days the past 2 years including in gales plus and never drug. In 8 years of boating I've only drug once and what I learned about that is "don't assume the anchor set, back down on it". BTW that was on a CQR, so maybe all the book needs to say is "get rid of your old school anchor and get new generation one". Anchoring isn't rocket science.

Forums seem to make dragging anchor like some common thing. Yet I've only seen it be a problem once and that was during a sudden gale that clocked into the anchorage with a 180 degrees direction change and some boats got their rode wrapped on their keels. Wonder if that's in the book?

I agree with you completely but you do have to do the minimum. I watched the harbor master at Block Island move several boats around that were dragging/hitting other boats in fairly moderate breeze so while it may be easy it does at least require some effort to get the basics. He told me that most of the ones who drag are using a Danforth. Why do they even sell them. [emoji3]

[a64pilot]

I fly tailwheel aircraft, largely cause I enjoy the challenge.
If you talk to old tailwheel pilots they will tell you that if you fly long enough, you will ground loop, it’s a matter of time.
I have a good anchor, way oversized, all chain rode, etc., etc.
I drug once, it has only been once so far, but I’m thinking it’s like a tailwheel, if you anchor enough, it’s eventually going to happen.

Mine was I feel pretty sure from a sloppy set, because I had become complacent, and knew that really I wasn’t in any danger.


I used to think the Sun rose and set on a Danforth, they were I thought the best. But I never really did anything but anchor in the day, always in firm sand and never any reversing currents.
I still think they and the similar Fortress have their place, just maybe not as primary.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by jkleins

I agree with you completely but you do have to do the minimum. I watched the harbor master at Block Island move several boats around that were dragging/hitting other boats in fairly moderate breeze so while it may be easy it does at least require some effort to get the basics. He told me that most of the ones who drag are using a Danforth. Why do they even sell them. [emoji3]

LOL I was going to ask sailorboy if he’d ever anchored at Block. In addition to it being very difficult ground in most areas where deep draft boats can anchor, it’s often extremely crowded with like 100 boats. If you haven’t dragged at Block you’ve probably had someone almost drag into you. When the wind shifts north in the evening it can be quite a spectacle. That’s why I anchor at the north end. :P

[sailorboy1]

I’ve anchored at Block and had no problems at all.

[CaptFigmo]

Drag lots in the Florida Keys.
Bottom mostly mud and/grass.
Put out 100' chain.
No match for 50+ mph winds in storm cell.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Briney Bug

The 3 keys to not dragging are: large enough anchor, the anchor design is right for the bottom, and enough scope.
Scope: at 7:1 the anchor has lost approximately 30% of its holding power, as compared to 10:1.
Design: if the anchor works in sand, it will work in mud. Many creeks/rivers accumulate a layer of leaves on their bottoms, therefore our recommendation, if there is vegetation of any type on the bottom is to use a fisherman-style anchor.
Size: For storm force winds, short or long lasting, any anchor should be at least 2 sizes bigger than that usually indicated in the manufacturer's chart, which is usually for winds under 30 knots. For mud, the anchor should be at least another size bigger.
Compare this list to what you had and see if there is a discrepancy somewhere.
Rudy Sechez

You would not get away around here anchoring with a scope of 10 or for that matter even 7! Our harbors are so crowded that you would be banging into the boats anchored near you.

And if you insisted on doing so, someone might make your stay unpleasant.

[JPA Cate]

You know, guys, we have to share anchorages, and I have to agree with the motor boater above, that 7:1 in crowded anchorages is ridiculous! If you think monohulls, because cats take up more, too, because of their beams, you need to cooperate. There are so many boaters, so many folks wanting to be on the water, that we all need to help each other to a safe anchorage at night, and that includes picking up some of that 7:1 scope, so that more vessels can fit in.

One time, we knew someone who had laid out 200 ft. in an anchorage, with a depth of about 20 ft. if memory serves, so he could fly back to the States and leave his wife safe aboard. It was ridiculous, but there it was. Today, with so many more cruisers, there would have been a problem.

Ann




Ann